#42 Jason Friedman
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Jason: [00:00:00] as much as I say you create a customer experience, you actually don't.
Jason: So I've been saying that I'm actually wrong, right? A customer experience is something that your customer has. It's not something you do. it's the effect, not the cause, right? And so customer experience is a result of everything you do. It's how they feel and their perception of how they feel after being touched by your business, your brand, your product, your service.
[00:01:00]
Claire: All right, here we have it. We have the one and only Jason Friedman. Welcome to the small town entrepreneur podcast. [00:02:00] It's so nice to have you with us.
Jason: What's up, Claire? Excited to be here.
Claire: I'm glad. Where are you right now? I didn't even ask you, where are you located? I
Jason: am in New Jersey. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, actually it's, you know, it's the Garden State.
Jason: It's a beautiful place. The sad thing is people fly into Newark airport usually and it's not a nice place. So we get a bad rap, but it's a pretty nice place.
Claire: You know what? Fun fact. I, I had all my family's Polish and they immigrated during the war and I have a huge I have tons of family members in New Jersey.
Jason: Nice. Well, if you come visit, let's get together. I would love to.
Claire: You will, I will take you up on that. Let's jump in. I'm really excited that you're here. We've been chatting. You are very impressive what you've done in your past working with big companies. Can you, just before we jump in and start talking about you know, how small businesses can really improve essentially today, we're going to look [00:03:00] at.
Claire: Improving the customer experience, improving the customer journey. I'm looking at that. Can you tell us your success story, how you made it to where you are?
Jason: Yeah, it's a, it's a kind of a fun story. I was a theater nerd growing up.
Jason: So as a young kid, I went to a summer camp and got involved in the theater program that they did. And I was behind the scenes. So I built sets and did lights and sound and all that kind of behind the scenes stuff. And over the years, just kind of fell in love with, with the What theater was and how it came together and the shows and the excitement and, you know, kind of putting on a show where an audience comes in at any age with all the problems in life and they sit down and they kind of all of it melts away and they become very present and they become engaged in the story.
Jason: They become part of the story. It's kind of cool. And so over the years, having done that, and then I went to school to become actually a lighting designer it was right. Yeah. So I'm actually by trade, I'm a lighting designer. I toured with rock and roll groups. So Peter [00:04:00] Gabriel rush, Canadian power trio.
Jason: Yeah. And then from there I went on to do some more legit theater. So. Les Mis, Jesus Christ Superstar, Man of Lamont, Fiddler on the Roof. And what you learn in doing that is so many things. Like it was the, I tell people like it was a very Mr. Miyagi, wax on, wax off kind of experience where you're building this wild set of skills.
Jason: That you really don't know you're building and then all of a sudden you're kind of put in a situation that you just have to kind of pay them off and you do it like in by second nature. And so what I learned really was how to get people's attention and how to hold their attention and captivate them.
Jason: And how to use every sense that people have. It's sight, smell, taste, touch, like the whole nine yards. Because when you're telling a story in theater, it's everything. It's the sets, it's the music, it's the lighting, it's the props, it's the, you know, it's the voice, the way that they sing, dance, the way they interact with each other.
Jason: And so you stage a show [00:05:00] with a lot of intention. And the thing that's so cool is you're always focusing on the audience. You're always thinking about who you're doing it for and how they're going to react. And so over the years, I just kind of built these muscles up. And then at the end of the rock and roll and theater days, I was fortunate enough to be invited to help a store Foot Locker, a brand that tells, you know, shoes how do we
Claire: know Foot Locker?
Claire: My first runners were from there, right? So
Jason: like Foot Locker wanted to create what they call the store of the future. And this was in like 1997, 1998. And it was just as the internet was becoming a thing and a force to be reckoned with. So they wanted to compete with online shopping. And how do we make the store a cooler place to shop where people would enjoy it more, would spend more money, would come back multiple times instead of just going online and, you know, clicking buy now.
Jason: And so we did that. We created a program for them. That was like pretty cool. We did it in a pilot location just outside [00:06:00] of Boston, Massachusetts, and we had a 400 percent increase in sales. And so, holy cow, that can't be a fluke, right? So like, let's try it again. So we went and we did another one right outside of Chicago, Illinois, and we had a 400 percent increase in sales.
Jason: And so they're like, no way. Like we've got to try third time's a charm. Let's see. And so we did another one right outside of New York city, just in Connecticut, in Stanford, Connecticut. And we had a 400 percent increase in same store sales. And we're like, this is amazing. Let's do
Claire: something.
Jason: Yeah. And so we ended up rolling this out to over a thousand locations and my company was born like literally overnight.
Jason: I had to hire employees and start. And then at the time, what we were really doing, like what we told people we were doing was Involving like theater technology into retail , right? So how do you bring in the lighting, the sounds, the sets? Well, what we were really doing, what we learned was we were creating.
Jason: And experience. We were creating an environment where [00:07:00] people like in the theater would feel something and be moved and transformed in a way. And so that business that I created in my living room, literally in my living room, went from just me to over 1, 600 employees in cities all across the world. 1, 600!
Jason: Yeah, like full of part time and contractors, but we had like no, that gives
Claire: me like, I, I wouldn't even want to manage that many people. It was,
Jason: it was awesome. I mean, look, every business comes with this challenges, right? I'm not going to sugarcoat it. And there's, you know, different size, different scale.
Jason: There's different challenges, but it was an amazing journey. We ended up selling that business for quite a bit of money. And I've had multiple other companies, but the through line of all my businesses, whether it's in spirits, like alcoholic spirits or medical centers or whatever is that audience, how do you create an experience that makes them so feel so good, so brand loyal that they want to tell everybody they know about it, that they [00:08:00] become, you're like, you're super affiliate, like in the online world, right?
Claire: Whatever they
Jason: can to bring other people to it. want to buy more from you like the are for ideal wh your products, they retur they renew their subscrip they recruit other people world. And so yeah, that and I'm just, I'm so luck some amazing brands that Believed that they're talking. Share some of
Claire: these.
Claire: We wanna, I feel like I got excited when you said Footlocker. 'cause I think of, with my dad going up my cleats for soccer. .
Jason: Yeah. I mean like, you name it. Like, so we worked with universal Studios. Disney, we worked with banks like Bank of America, Wachovia First Union fleet Bank. We worked with. Museums like Madame Tussauds, we worked with like Armani Nike, Burger King, you know, like, I mean,
Claire: that's all
Jason: brands, right?
Claire: Such different audiences, right? So that's the [00:09:00] cool thing is all those people that came to the theater, which this is, I love this alignment today because I love these shows. We don't really prep. We just get on and we start chatting. We want to share your awesome with the world. But. Fun fact, and this is where I can totally relate.
Claire: I was a high school teacher for almost eight years. And I was the makeup and hair and costume person for all the musicals. So I jammed. And so I did, I think 13 different musicals. And it's funny cause I don't love musicals. Per se, maybe my ADHD brain, I'm like, come on, don't sing the song.
Claire: Get to the point. But that wasn't, that wasn't my jam. My jam was behind the scenes of creating this magic that they go on stage, the best hair, the best, like, I love that part of it. So it's so cool that you're talking about this, because this is something that maybe you're right. You know why I love the customer experience and that is because it's.
Claire: It is like a musical [00:10:00] theater, putting all the pieces together.
Jason: Well, and I would argue that it should be more like that, right? Where you put all the pieces together, right? So many of us, whether you have one customer, or a thousand customers, or a hundred thousand customers, right? What we do is we spend so much of our energy, like we build a program, or we create a product, or we have a service.
Jason: And we get it, but then we end up shifting all of our focus because we got to get sales, right? So we put all of our energy towards filling the funnel or bringing in clients or ads or whatever we do. And so little of our focus goes to , obsessing over getting our clients who said yes to us bigger results.
Jason: And so what we try and do is have people flip the script on that. And. When you think about theater, like, just think about what you were saying. You only did hair and makeup. That was one little piece of a million things that were going on, but it was important because if an old lady came out on
Claire: violinist, when they needed me in the pit
Jason: band, that's another part of it.
Jason: But like, if you're trying to portray an old lady and you're a high [00:11:00] school student, if the makeup and the hair don't make you look older, you're not going to believe it. It's not going to fit. And so it's all the little details when you choreograph. All the things in that journey for a customer, you end up creating more authenticity, you end up helping them believe and buy in, and they pay attention, and they become more engaged.
Jason: And so for many of us, you know, all of you listening, What we need to do for our business, again, whether you have one customer or a thousand, we need to really think through from that audience, the customer's perspective, what am I feeling like? What am I seeing? What am I thinking? What am I expecting? What is, what is that feeling that I have at each step along that journey?
Jason: Because when we don't, the customers are going to have an experience, a feeling, a reaction, no matter what, whether you decided what it was going to be, or it's just an accident, and it's just by default, they're still having an experience. So it's important to do it by intent, right? Yeah.
Claire: Yeah. Yeah, no, it's funny because you're [00:12:00] telling this story, and I have so many questions that have come from what you've just shared, and a big one I want to look at is like, okay, well, what does that, like, let's look at a practical example, but before we get to there, it's funny, you were telling your story, and I think this is the gap where, For you, you didn't even probably, it just became so, it was just part of your story, but something was fascinating.
Claire: You said, you know, you're doing musical theater, you're working with big bands big bands and creating these experiences. And then all of a sudden you got a client with Footlocker. What, what was the, like, like, there's a gap there. Like, did you call up Footlocker? How did they find you? What was that?
Claire: Because once you get it in like that, you get, you do a big win. The momentum's there, but what I'm starting to find with small business, they're waiting for their footlocker before we even get to creating that. What is it that you did that you can share that got you footlocker?
Jason: Yeah. So, I mean, in [00:13:00] that case, like that first client came from it was a comedy of errors, right?
Jason: And that's how oftentimes it happens, right? You're not, you're not looking for that one and it shows up. Right. And so for us. I told you I was a lighting designer. So I had been doing some work at universal studios as a, they do a big thing for a Halloween called Halloween horror nights. And I was assisting one of the senior lighting designers on doing stuff there.
Jason: So. The owners of the, or not the owners, I guess the CEO, like the leadership of Foot Locker knew that lighting designer and like said, Hey, we want to bring some of this kind of theatricality into our store. Like, can you guys help? And so lighting designer and I kind of got pulled in and we started brainstorming on it and talking about it.
Jason: And what we learned like, so it came like our whole idea, like the plan for what we did there wasn't accidental. It was intentional. And it was through research. We looked and said, like, what makes the experience better for customers? We talked to customers. We asked them, like, [00:14:00] what did you enjoy? What did you not?
Jason: We watched. We observed their patterns. Like, how did they go in the store? Which way did they walk? How much time did they spend? If they spent more time, did they buy more things? Or were they more frustrated? as we started to look at this, what we found is when they found what they were looking for quickly, they would likely spend more time, actually, because then they would look for something else.
Jason: Versus spending so much of their time looking for something that they couldn't find. Then they would get frustrated and leave. Right? How did the
Claire: lighting play that part, especially in a store? Because I'll be honest, I hadn't, like, I notice when something is like overpowering lighting, like, I care about those things, but for something so corporate feeling, what you know, the music will be, or what?
Claire: So, yeah, it's
Jason: a great question.
Claire: Yeah,
Jason: it's a great question. So all of the all the tech, if you will, right, the tech was designed and the layout, the physical layout of the store was designed to kind of pull you through in the way we wanted you to go. We wanted it to have current. Right. And [00:15:00] so even the audio, we had speakers that were programmed to actually move the sound and almost feel like you're pulling through and the lighting subtly, this wasn't like a light show, but it was moving you in a direction so that you didn't just walk in and go straight.
Jason: You went through, it was like a lazy river, if you will. Right. Yes, I know. I exactly.
Claire: This is what I'm feeling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. I love that. I love it.
Jason: And so another example, like in Macy's, which was another client of ours, like big, you know, department store we did a project with them in, like, a swimsuit area where we had lighting and scent.
Jason: So we would pipe in a scent that smelled a little bit like Hawaiian Tropics lotion. And the lights were brighter and felt hotter. And so when you'd go, you'd see this like more amber yellowish, like sunny looking air, smell like the beach. And you just, you got to a buying mood, right? Cause we, we made you feel beachy and like you wanted to go out and do that in Foot Locker, you feel more athletic.
Jason: Like the energy was higher, [00:16:00] right? So the space was higher.
Claire: It's so funny because I think. You know, now that I sit so much, I, I look for the, these intentions now, because as someone that runs businesses, work with other entrepreneurs and small, you're just more in tune. once you see it, you can't unsee it and you keep
Jason: 100%.
Claire: So it's so interesting because I think there's so many people, they are just going through the experience. It's working. they didn't realize how intentional this was for them, you know? And I think that's the beauty of it. It's that subtle intention.
Jason: 100 percent and and what we really are doing like so it's it's beyond like the the spectacle part of it.
Jason: Right? So the spectacle is cool and it and it's a part of it. Right? But a big part of what we're doing is we're doing what we call removing friction. We're trying. So if you think of like a water slide, right? You're on a water slide and there's not enough [00:17:00] water. Your body keeps getting stuck. on that. And you're like
Claire: bad feeling on those thig cheap, right?
Jason: Of course. a water slide that has lo flowing and removes the f if you start to go up hig
Jason: And so as you think about the journey that customers go on with you, we want to take out as much friction or reduce as much friction as we can. And then we want to find ways to induce or boost momentum so that we can help them get towards that end goal, whatever that happens to be for your product, your service, your business.
Jason: Right. And so reverse
Claire: engineering, you speak about a hundred
Jason: percent. Yeah. Like you have to go start at the end. And then say, okay, what do I want it to be? So one of the tactics that we use is again, theater based, right?
Jason: We call it creating an ideal customer script. And so an ideal customer script is at the end of your journey. Right. Let's say that a client just purchased your online course, or they bought your physical product, or they finished a class at your yoga studio, whatever it happens to be [00:18:00] for your business. I want you to write down with a lot of juicy adjectives.
Jason: what would they say to someone if they had the perfect experience? Like Claire, I just bought this course. It was unbelievable. Let me tell you when I started down that road, I was unsure of what I, whether or not I was going to do it, but yet, you know, Jason made me feel so comfortable. Like he really was speaking my language and I knew that I needed to step up and go to the next level.
Jason: Anyway, I got in there and it's like, I was binging it. Like I couldn't get enough. And as I was going through it, he gave me actionable steps, things that I could start doing right this minute that helped me get there. By the way, I brought my team into it. My team is on fire. My team they've taken ownership in a way they never be deep before.
Jason: You've got to buy this course. Like it is the best investment I ever made in my business. Right. So we maybe be right back. Right now, we kind of know what we have to do. Like we know that they're a little bit, they have a lot of trepidation and fear at the beginning. So how do we onboard them and, and deal with that?
Jason: We might say to them, listen, we [00:19:00] know that it's a big risk for you to invest in this program. We want to honor you for doing that, and we want to help you get the most value as quickly as you can. So, here's what we want to do. Right, so you're giving them the words that you ultimately want them to say, all throughout the journey.
Jason: And we're putting things in place as like mile markers, right? As tent poles, so they see those things, and they feel it, and they feel like they're making
Claire: Marathon! 5K! 10K!
Jason: 100%. 100%, right? And so, so it seems simple, but when you do this, you're actually giving yourself like, I call it like the treasure map.
Jason: Right. And you see the big red
Claire: at
Jason: the end, and now we can see how we get them there and we can move it there. So, so if you have not done something like this, write your ideal customer script, and the beauty is. You're making it up. You just, it's, it's like an exercise. It's a game. So play the game, write it down.
Jason: Law
Claire: of attraction too, right? A hundred percent.
Jason: Right? Intention will get you there. It starts to open up. And
Claire: you hear, and I love that because I think the biggest thing, you [00:20:00] know, I, I mean, as an entrepreneur, we're always learning, you know, we're always learning. We're always growing. We're hearing. And that reverse engineering, creating that customer experience, I hear a lot.
Claire: What is the transformation? You know, like, where are they here, where are they going to be? And I think you, you speak a lot about this and you, and I've seen a lot of your work is about that reverse engineering is like, what is, does the transformation look like for that customer? Right? Yep. Like, where are they, whether it's getting that new bathing suit the new running shoe, the class, the whatever it is now, what I.
Claire: Find really interesting because, you know, we remember when there was no internet, I grew up with no internet and this is why I love this, like these two worlds because we're at a unique point in our lives where artificial intelligence runs parts of our world now, and we couldn't even fathom that, you know, 1997 when you were at Foot [00:21:00] Locker.
Claire: What does the customer journey, was that a hard transition for you going the customer journey, creating that experience that you are so familiar in the physical world to now building it out for digital audience. You know, we hear a lot about UX, like the user experience online. Was that. Was it hard for you to adapt or was it just very similar and just bringing in different ways for the digital customer to go through?
Jason: Yeah, that's a great question. So first and foremost I just want to take one quick step back before I answer that. And I want to define what customer experience actually is, just so that we have a frame of reference. I realize we're using this vernacular, right? This terminology. So customer experience, as much as I say you create a customer experience, you actually don't.
Jason: So I've been saying that I'm actually wrong, right? A customer experience is something that your customer has. It's not something you do. it's the effect , not the cause, right? And so customer experience is a result [00:22:00] of everything you do. It's how they feel and their perception of how they feel after being touched by your business, your brand, your product, your service.
Jason: And so as we think about the journey that people go on, whether it's online or offline, right? The tactics might be a little bit different, right? But the strategy is exactly. Exactly the same. And so what you need to do is you really need to think through all those touch points. And I would argue that it's more important in an online business than an offline business.
Jason: Only in that you don't have that human interaction where you can read the person. Right. So if I come, if you come into my retail store, I can see that you're not liking what you're seeing, or I can feel that you're not getting what I'm saying, and I can adjust my language. I can say something differently online.
Jason: They're looking at a webpage or an online store or whatever it is. You don't have that. It's a way for you to get a little bit of that interaction the same way that you might have chat where you can get a little bit of it. But we all know we've sent a text message to someone. They get [00:23:00] angry and we had no mal intent when we sent it.
Jason: They just didn't understand. So things do get lost in
Claire: that moment.
Jason: Right? Right. Exactly. Right. There's a whole thing that happens. So in an online world, I believe that it's even more important. To think through the experience and all the touch points from the point of view, the vantage point of the customer, right?
Jason: You got to step in their shoes. You got to put on their glasses and you got to look at it the way they look at it. So if you just, if you have an online shop, right, or you're selling an online course, what What is that customer thinking and expecting when they first land on your page? What do they need to know right in the beginning?
Jason: And a lot of times we overwhelm people, right? talk about the curse of over delivery, right? And most people think that over delivery is awesome. Like I want to always under promise, over deliver, under promise, over deliver. The problem with that is that when we over deliver. Consistently, number one, we typically overwhelm and number two, [00:24:00] we lose context, right over delivery assumes that you know what delivery means.
Jason: Otherwise there wouldn't be an over. Right? And so everything's beyond they don't have context. And now it's just expected. And so we have different levels. And so in an online business, we don't want to overwhelm. We don't want to always over deliver. We want to pick strategic and even this is true offline too.
Jason: We don't want to overwhelm. We don't want to always over deliver in online. It's just, it's more dangerous because we don't have that real time feedback where we can address it and adjust it as we go. If you know, I'm sorry. Yeah.
Claire: And that's where I think for me, that is. Something is challenging because, you know, being someone that loves people, we read body language really quickly and we adjust for that.
Claire: The greatest, like, job I ever had to this day that I learned the most lessons is being a waitress. Serving at a restaurant, you [00:25:00] in real time, you got to create the perfect experience because your experience, their experience, I should say, leads to a poor university student trying to make money to ship that table out the door and whatever you provide for them really comes down to how much you're worth.
Jason: I totally agree. Like So my, my son turned 17 yesterday, my older son, and
Claire: we went
Jason: out. We took him out to dinner last night to a nice restaurant with a bunch of family members and the waiters. were amazing. Like they really were amazing. And it was noticeably different than what you normally have.
Jason: And so my kid's grandfather, right? My father in law, he was, he said to him, my son, he's like, he's like, what did you notice about this? This dinner. Like what was awesome. And my son who doesn't really talk about this kind of stuff often. He's like, you know, that's a boy. He's not broken. He's not broken.
Jason: It's just not normal. [00:26:00]
Claire: Brothers that are very few words. I get it.
Jason: Yeah. And so he was just like, he's like, grandpa, he's like, the service was awesome. And I'm like, you know what, buddy, the service was awesome. And it was to your point, it was a good
Claire: dad moment. You raised him. Well, it wasn't
Jason: good. It was a good dad moment.
Jason: And it was a better grandpa moment. Cause he was the one that asked the great question and put it out. And then the conversation that ensued, but. the waiters were really observing our reactions in real time, right? And so my mother in law, she asked she's like, you know, she's like, I loved your bread.
Jason: We have a couple of pieces left on the table. It was really good bread. She's like, I have a doggie bag for that. He said, listen, he's like, I love that you loved it, but I am not sending you home with stale bread. He's like, what if I bring you a fresh loaf from the back? And she was just like, wait, what? Now, it was free bread, and she's like, I can put a napkin, like, a damp cloth on it and put it in the oven and it'll be just like new.
Jason: He's like, okay. And so he went away, took the check, you know, paid the bill, whatever. And he came [00:27:00] back and he said, listen. He's like, I'm gonna let you take that one home. He's like, but I also got you another one. He's like, so you have two loaves. He didn't need to do that. And it was just like such a nice final moment, but he knew that she was loving it.
Jason: He kept bringing, you know, it was just, they were very thoughtful and they were very responsive and they were really paying attention to what was going on at the dinner. And sadly, like I talk about this with restaurants and wait staff all the time, right? Their income, how much money they make in the U S anyway, right?
Jason: Is directly related to the service they provide because they make their money through tips. They don't get normal, depending what country you're in. That may be different. Right. But in the U S it is five something
Claire: an hour.
Jason: Yeah. And the U S I think it's like three, something an hour. It's like even less.
Jason: Right. And the tips are everything. So you have 100 percent control. It's like being an entrepreneur. It is being an entrepreneur amazing or not. You get to choose if you're going to make a lot of [00:28:00] money that day or not. And these guys chose, and I gave them like a 30 percent tip, which is a big tip and it was a big bill.
Jason: It was a nice steakhouse. It was not inexpensive. And I would have given them more, like it was so delightful. And so as we think about it, what do we need to do in our business online, offline, between the lines, hybrid, like all of us probably have a little bit of both. We need to really look at that interaction and see how do we make it more and more human, even if it is human.
Jason: How do we make it more human? How do we make it so that we really do have empathy for our customers and understand who they are, what they're looking for, and what's happening in their world?
Claire: Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I, it starts as simple, you know, or it could be as complex as providing a great dinner experience.
Claire: And I think that was something where it really, really, that, that story really resonates because someone that, you know, you work hard, like [00:29:00] serving was hard work, but also rewarding because you are creating that experience.
Claire: So let's. Yeah. Let's look at, you know, small businesses, we, you have worked with some of the biggest brands.
Claire: In the world, why the transition? what gets you really excited to wake up every day and be like, you know, I saw [00:30:00] the big corporations and I made huge changes in 400 percent ROI increase, whatever, why the shift now? what excites you to work with small business owners?
Jason: So I'm an entrepreneur.
Jason: I identify as an entrepreneur, identify as a learner. I identify as a leader, identify as a coach. And what I know is that my journey, like I've created like thousands of jobs over the years for people. I've created an amazing set of circumstances for my customers to do better for my employees to do better for my family, to have the life that they want for me to have the life that I want.
Jason: I believe that being an entrepreneur is as is the way right, right, wrong or indifferent. I believe that being an entrepreneur is for
Claire: everyone. But if you believe it's not, right.
Jason: And I don't think everyone should be one, but I, I believe if you want true freedom and create impact and all those things, being an entrepreneur is an amazing way to go.
Jason: And I believe we as entrepreneurs, all of us, everyone [00:31:00] listening, whether you're existing as an entrepreneur, maybe you're a watch for, or you're kind of just stepping into it. So, or whatever that is. Or if you're just entrepreneurial, right? You don't, you don't want to kind of do it on your own, but you're an intrapreneur, you're working with other, either way, you're still in that group.
Jason: Right. We have so much ability to create change, to create impact, to create value. And and I love that. And I love supporting those people. I've learned so much on my journey. I had the good fortune of being able to quote retire. And for me, retirement, the definition of retirement, which I learned from my business coach, Dan Sullivan is the freedom to choose what you do.
Jason: Right. And so a lot of stopping, right? It's not an end. It's an actually a beginning of more freedom to really choose. And so my choice was to help other entrepreneurs avoid some of the mistakes I've made skip past some of the landmines that I've learned the hard way to navigate. [00:32:00] And create more value in the world.
Jason: Like I, there's nothing more fulfilling for me, Claire, then seeing my students, my clients get where they want to go. And if I can help them and support them. And in some cases it is me holding space for them. Cause they don't have the confidence yet. Confidence comes last. Confidence comes as a result of taking actions and having some success.
Jason: And in a lot of cases, you know this too with your clients, like we hold space and sometimes they borrow my confidence in them because they don't have it. And I can help them get where they need to go. I
Claire: love that. I love the borrowing confidence.
Jason: Yeah. That's cool. It's a joy. That is
Claire: really cool.
Jason: Yeah, it's a joy.
Jason: So, so for me, it's like, it's a, it's a pay it forward and, and make money and support entrepreneurs. And I, you know, my success, I've had a lot of it. Thank God. I've chosen more, right. Turns than wrong. Turns in my day. But I've had to,
Claire: or we forget the wrong turns. .
Jason: No, I don't. I learn lessons. I've learned a lot [00:33:00] of great lessons.
Jason: I joke that I've invested in my own PhD a hundred times over with all the lessons I've learned right across the mistakes. YouTube
Claire: degrees.
Jason: Yeah. But at the end of the day you know, being able to support entrepreneurs on their journey. Is it just makes me happy. I love doing it. I wake up every day, more excited about what I'm doing every day.
Jason: So it was natural to do that. And that's not to say that I didn't love working with the bigger companies. They're amazing. They gave me a great opportunity to learn, to grow, to share. And some of my greatest friends and relationships to this day are still those clients and those people. Cause at the end of the day, we are people working with people.
Jason: Right. It doesn't matter if you're a big company, little company, whatever. I just love entrepreneurs and I want to help support that. It's just, I would swear my passion lies.
Claire: it's cool that you say this, the first thing is borrowing confidence. And I think anyone listening, you're a confident person.
Claire: And I think that's what, you know, what the world does need is if you have that [00:34:00] confidence, share a little piece with someone else to get them, you know, maybe get them off their feet a bit. And I think it's really cool because I think that's sometimes what we just need. I also love the fact that. You see the value in building, you know, creating change and building this out now what I'm curious.
Claire: I want to really know, what's the biggest thing when you're working with these big, big companies that you've taken? And we talk about this, it doesn't, there was another episode we were talking about Ryan Alford, actually, that I'm going to have on the show. He always talks about, you know, there's no B to C and C to C and A to Z.
Claire: He's like, it's H to H. It's human to human.
Jason: Yep. I agree. And
Claire: Keeping within that theme, what's something, so we have small business owners, entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs, all the things, entrepreneurs listening, and they're on their journey of that freedom to choose how they want to spend their time, how they want to spend their money, because that's not an ongoing, crippling, you know, thing in their [00:35:00] life.
Jason: Yep.
Claire: What is something that you've taken working with some of these huge companies that someone, a solopreneur working for themselves, they're in their basement, wherever they are, what's something that they really can take action today to create some impact?
Jason: Yeah. So many things. Like what's coming up for me.
Jason: I
Claire: know. I'm just saying like what comes
Jason: to me right now, as you're asking that is really anticipating people's needs. Right. And so like with our corporate clients this is true of every client. It really is not just corporate, but I think I learned it that way. It's like, if you know, your ideal customer, we use the term avatar a lot in online world or customer persona.
Jason: If you really understand who they are you really know what they want. And what they need, right? And they're different. They're not the same thing. Usually, right? It could, they could be, but they're usually not
Claire: paid for versus what you think they need.
Jason: Yeah. Like, you know, or maybe it's not even what they [00:36:00] paid for.
Jason: Maybe they want something beyond what you've offered them that you're still not clear on, right? It could be a secret want, right? That hasn't come to fruition, right? But yeah. So what is it? Okay. And so with my corporate clients, what we learned is like, we got really clear on what success looks like. We would always get really clear on like, because our corporate clients weren't, they weren't buying like an online course from us, they were buying like a custom project usually.
Jason: But we'd spend a lot of time really getting clear on what the vision of success was with them. So we got clear on what they want. Right. But we also got clear on what they need. Like, what are the things that have to be true in order for that want to happen? Right. And so we would put together a, a proposal or a, a, a service for them that was custom tailored.
Jason: Now it's based on our kit of parts and what we normally do, but it was tweaked and customized for them. And in doing so, what we learned was that we understood them in most cases better than they [00:37:00] understood themselves. And I think this is a key learning for all of us in all of our customers, whether it's a custom thing or your standard thing, you need to know your avatar super, super well, better than they know themselves.
Jason: And you need to be able to articulate it in a way that helps them create that level of clarity. And so for me and working with those people, we got to be able to, like, really anticipate the needs that they had. And they were always like, thank God. Like they would literally say to us, thank God we hired you.
Jason: Like, I don't know what we would do without you. Like, these are great phrases for someone as a customer to say to you as a business owner. It sounds a little codependent. I get that. Right. But like, put that,
Claire: the world confidence to let them go out. Yeah.
Jason: Yeah. They value the relationship. And so like. For all of you that are listening right as you go out on your journey, or if you already have your your journey going, like, think about that.
Jason: Like, what would have to be true for them to say those words to you? Like, how could you become such a valuable [00:38:00] partner? How could you create value for them that they super need, super want, but they're not really sure how to even tell you that? Right. That comes from a deep, deep understanding of who those customers are.
Claire: I love that. I love that. And I think that's the thing. It's, I mean, I remember reading like Steve jobs had echoed something like that. Like people don't always know what they want or what they need. You build it, you tell them and they'll come. And I think there's an element of like, we're talking here, you know, the listening and hearing what they're saying.
Claire: But I think, like you said, is like hacking is in a way that you're like, Huh? you know, that's what I was looking for. So I think that's awesome is that, you know, and, and to wrap up, you know, I want to direct the audience to something awesome you've created for the audience today. And I would like to share that in just a second, but I think there's two things that I really like to bring into this, this podcast with conversations with inspiring guests like yourself is this [00:39:00] idea of.
Claire: You know, We're human to human that's never going to change storytelling is never going to change, you know, tools and technology and ways and strategies, they're going to change, but the idea of human connection through storytelling is never going to change. And I think a lot of businesses as you know, they're like, I can't keep up with all the things that are happening for those businesses that might be, you know, trying to reinvent themselves in this new digital age.
Claire: Is there anything you can speak to with someone that has seen such a transformation in the world of like, so solely focused on creating the physical experience, transitioning to the online experiences? Is there anything for these listeners that feel overwhelmed with trying to keep up with everything that's out there in the new digital age that we're living in with all this movement?
Claire: Is there something that you can maybe. We're going to borrow Jason confidence before we end the [00:40:00] episode.
Jason: I'm happy to share. That's a, that's a really interesting question. You know, I think, I think a really good friend of mine. Her name is Anne Wilson. she helps entrepreneurs and others with their finances.
Jason: She's a South African entrepreneur, super bright lady. And she always says, like, when it comes to investing and when it comes to your business, even boring is beautiful, boring is beautiful. And so what I mean when I share that quote, it's like, keep it simple, right? Like, it doesn't, everything doesn't have to be outrageous.
Jason: Like, you don't need all the latest tech gadgets. You don't need all the latest technologies. You don't need. Like what you need is to create value for another human being, right? So whatever your product is, your service, your, whatever it is with, if you're using AI as a tool, which is awesome, right? AI is like the great equalizer in the world right now.
Jason: And it's proliferating everywhere. The thing about it is it's in some people's businesses. They're using it to be the business. In other people's businesses, they're using it to speed up the [00:41:00] process and free up some time so that they can be more with
Claire: the
Jason: customers, right? And so, remember this, your, the experience that your customers have is what differentiates you from everybody else.
Jason: Right. The technologies that you use, the tools that you use, those are only pieces of the equation. Your, your fingerprint, your unique fingerprint is the experience you create. And so, simplify the tools, simplify the tech, use only what you absolutely need to get results for your customers. And obsess over helping them succeed.
Jason: The more that your customers get results, positive results, right? The more that they get positive results, the more your business will grow because they're marketing and what you got to say positive, right? The more your marketing should be sharing success stories of your customers. Your marking should be showing how many results people got.
Jason: Like if you go on Amazon to buy a product, you're looking at positive reviews. A lot of people that are [00:42:00] looking how many five star reviews, you don't know who the people are. You're not necessarily sure if they're good judges of character or of products or not, but you're seeing lots of social proof that helps you make a buying decision.
Jason: The same is true with your product, your service, anything. Right. So the more positive results and that you share that, the more your business is going to grow. And when customers get positive results, they want to tell other people. They do. They want to, and they want to help. So lean into that.
Claire: I love that.
Claire: And it's, it's funny. Cause just digital, like foot traffic, as we speak, as we say, it's like you jump on Amazon. Are we looking at all the specs? No. All we do is first zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom reviews at the bottom. Then we go out, you know, like that behavior. So
Jason: yeah. Like, is this even worth my time?
Jason: Right. Did other people and, and we're taking the advice of strangers as to whether or not we should look at it. Right. So if we know that that's how people make buying decisions [00:43:00] now put amazing strangers in the front of your funnel, that's how you're going to sell more stuff. Get those results, obsess over the backend.
Jason: I'm telling you that will be tremendous for your business and for your life. Cause it feels really good to help customers get results. A
Claire: hundred percent. I think that's initially why we go in the people that love entrepreneurship or solving problems for a customer. That's what we're
Jason: every day. I love
Claire: it.
Jason: What a
Claire: great way to wrap this. We have something very special for the listeners today. Only from the one, only. Jason Friedman. Jason, can you share what you're gifting our audience with today?
Jason: Yeah, kind of. So I want to tease you. All right. ,
Claire: bring it on.
Jason: I want to give you. What I think is an amazing free PDF download.
Jason: It is about 10 minutes of your time required to be invested in reading it and thinking about it. I don't want to tell you what it is, but I want to tell you that it's both left brain and right brain. So it's part [00:44:00] strategy and it will change the way you think about your business. And it is at the same time actionable.
Jason: You can tactically start to do something with this immediately. And it is one of my favorite things to do. It's one of my favorite strategy and tactics that I use in my own businesses. It's one of the things that I teach every one of my customers. That's had amazing results. So I want you to go download this and the only thing I ask, I ask two things.
Jason: One, if you download it, then actually look at it. Don't just download it and feel like, okay, scratch the itch. I
Claire: was waiting for, I got your email.
Jason: No, no, no, I'm definitely going to grab your email. But I want you to like, if you download it, I want you to look at it. Cause I think we put a lot of time into it.
Jason: We created a great experience. I think in the PDF. So I want you to read it.
Claire: It's not even that you, okay. Time aside, we're all listening. You've worked with some of the biggest, most successful brands. You've. Built some of the greatest entrepreneurs. That's why time, you know, we can all say we spend a lot of time on something.
Claire: So [00:45:00] our listeners know this is the road to success. Yeah.
Jason: It's hard. We're on experience. You're getting, you're getting like some road battle, tested road, tested stuff. Weird. So, so, so do that. And then the second thing is you're going to have my email, right? Reply to my email. And it goes to me personally. I want to know what you think.
Jason: Did you like it? Are you going to do something with it? Tell me what you, what you think about it. So anyway, it is at gift G I F T dot CX formula. com forward slash small dash town dash entrepreneur. Just for Claire's people. And you're not going to find it on my website. If you go to CX formula. com, which I'd love for you to go there, you will not find this anywhere there.
Jason: So special gift just for your people, Claire, and uh, thank you for having me. This has been just so much fun to chat with you. Maybe you'll bring me back sometime. We can chat more about it. I
Claire: will, because I have so many more questions, but I think to get the audience, you know, we talked about deliverability.
Claire: We don't want to overwhelm everyone. Let's just start with actionable item number one [00:46:00] and thinking about that customer, really obsessing over how they feel. So again, for coming on the small town entrepreneur podcast with Jason Friedman. Don't forget to check out the link to download the free gift, which is the best part.
Claire: We're not telling you what it actually is. You're going to have to download it. I love it. Thank you so much, Jason.
Jason: Thanks, Claire.
