Mastering Sustainable and Practical Marketing Strategies with Nathan Yeung
===
Nathan Yeung: [00:00:00] your first impression means more than you think.
Nathan Yeung: And I don't care what you say to me. I don't care how much you try to debate with me, how you show up, how you communicate, how you look, unfortunately will play a judgment. And the reason it is, is because we are human.
Claire: Hello, hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode with the small town entrepreneur podcast. I'm your host, Claire Bouvier, and we're bringing another exciting episode. And I'm saying another exciting episode because today we have a fabulous global expert in the marketing [00:01:00] world that is changing the world and how we look at marketing, whether you're a one woman, man show you have a big team, what are some of the things we can do to get your message, your amazing work, your business out into the world to reach more people.
Claire: So you have a greater impact in this world. So Nathan, we are so excited to jump in and to talk to you today about the world of marketing from your lens.
Nathan Yeung: Thanks, Claire. I'm looking forward to talking to your audience about this.
Claire: Me too. So let's dive in the number one question. I think that almost paralyzes us you know, we start a business and there is 4 million, quadrillion ways you can start marketing how do we prioritize which tasks we should be doing for the greatest effort with marketing?
Nathan Yeung: So loaded question. Yeah, I
Claire: know.
Nathan Yeung: Placing me in a bad place already with the, with the tough question right at the beginning.
Nathan Yeung: But so my background was I went to school [00:02:00] for marketing and I was a VP of finance and then I was in operations for quite a bit. And then I've been running my agency now for about seven and a half years, but this is not my only business. I have three. And so I think what's really, really interesting is when you look at every business, it is a loaded question, meaning I don't want to oversimplify something that isn't simple.
Nathan Yeung: Now, at the same time, I'm also writing a book about how we need things to be simple in order for us to action it. So we live in this. Paradoxical world where we want to solve complex problems with simple solutions. And the reality is, is that what we have to do to move forward from that is to just accept the fact that there will be pitfalls in every framework that we move forward on and just be accepting of that and be aware of that.
Nathan Yeung: So I think what it means to starting a business and promoting and Being really resourceful. I don't want to make it sound so dumbed down, but one of the things I always tell all of my clients is, you know, everything that I promote needs [00:03:00] to be practical and sustainable. And those are the two words I use.
Nathan Yeung: And what practical means to me is that you can practice that tactic to a high level of expertise, which means you're implementing and executing well. And then the second one, it's sustainable, which means. It's a activity of which is not going to tax your personal time resources too much to the point where you can no longer maintain that activity for a long period of time.
Nathan Yeung: Now, if I were to make this into a, an example, because I'm a marketer and I need to explain it to a proper audience is. Weight loss. So everyone loves impractical, unsustainable weight loss diets. Right. What I am trying to say is it's very much the same methodology in the sense that if you want to see success, you need to have something that is going to be sustainable for you. So jumping on. These fad trends, all they're going to do is tax your energy.
Nathan Yeung: So now I've talked about framework and the [00:04:00] approach, right? The approach is similar to that of your weight loss program, the weight loss program, how you look at a sustainable weight loss program is how you should be looking at, at a sustainable marketing program. So that's, I love
Claire: that. That is a great analogy.
Nathan Yeung: Now what does that mean? And how do you make that a bit more actionable? Because I don't want to be that person who just gives you this high levels, you know, Fluffy nest.
Claire: Thank you.
Nathan Yeung: There's a very simple thing that I recommend for all people to do in any business. And that's a very anecdotal journey.
Nathan Yeung: So you take a piece of paper, you put it on landscape, you draw a line that kind of squiggles and goes up. And what I want you to do is I want you to think about this as the journey from zero to a hundred zero is where they don't know you. A hundred is when they want to have a conversation and buy from you.
Nathan Yeung: And I want you to write down, what do you think? Not what you're going to research you're not going to spend too much time on this because I want this to be actionable I want you to go through this and through every peak and valley that you have on this little line [00:05:00] I want you to go through what do you think that interaction or touch point was to your customer?
Nathan Yeung: What was that positive interaction? What was that negative interaction? Was it an ad? Was it youtube? Was it? A Reddit review. Was it you being on a podcast? Was it you showing up at a local networking meeting? Was it you sponsoring a conference? And I want you to put that in and in every peak and valley, you know, be anecdotal and what you think is actually going to be the impact.
Nathan Yeung: So you know that a friend's comment is going to be far more powerful than a random Reddit review from a brand new account. so be mindful of this doesn't need to be scientific. And I want you then to look back. At this chart that you've made this, this little line chart and go, what am I good at? And then match with what you're good at with the ones that have the most incrementality, the ones with the most impact and influence.
Nathan Yeung: And that's where you're going to focus first.
Nathan Yeung: Because if you're going to do something, you want the most impact. The most sustainability. And when [00:06:00] you match those two, That's going to be your priority.
Claire: I love that because I talked to a lot of people that are influencers or have personal brands and they go out of the gate so big, I'm going to show up every week for a YouTube, I'm going to put out an episode if they've never been on camera, that's a whole nother muscle, another skill set they have to like, Really work on and I agree.
Claire: I think it's like Gary Vee, I know we were talking offline about this, but he made a comment and I would love to hear from you on this point for marketing is that he's like, share as you go, don't. Take something out of your day to day and really be like, I'm going to do marketing on this where it's like, as he's moving and it's extreme version, he literally shares everything, but this idea is that you build out your day to share a piece of what you're doing that day and use it as an anecdotal sharing marketing tactic.
Claire: Do you think that works? For [00:07:00]
Nathan Yeung: people. I, you know what? I don't listen to a ton of mainstream guys. And I have to admit that's just because I'm a contrarian by heart, which means if they're too mainstream for me, kind of like how I don't use Apple. I just tend to shy away from it. So I tend to be an early adopter type perspective.
Nathan Yeung: I love Gary Vee. I've seen some of his stuff. So. The concept that you have brought up is actually a concept that I have, which is, I call it backpacking. And what backpacking means to me is actually, and this is exactly what Gary's talking about, is he's trying to be intentional with his time. And he's also being intentional with workflows, which I think is really important.
Nathan Yeung: So, so often again, going back to the example say that you know, essentially. Going to networking meetings is a great way because you feel energized. You're an extrovert. You, you enjoy it. You feel much better in person than you do on camera. So you, you, you do that. And so as an exercise, what you do is every single time you go on these networking things, you actually come home and maybe you journal.
Nathan Yeung: And then when you journal, you're actually going to write out pains and benefits [00:08:00] of every single conversation you have. So if you look about that, that's really customer feedback. And so what he's trying to say is, is that when you have an activity that You need to think about all the additional activities around that activity that could be produced, right?
Nathan Yeung: So he's trying to be efficient with his workflows because it is very easy for you to actually produce content as you were doing it, which is very natural. And so when I'm talking to my clients, a lot of them are like, Oh, we need to do social media. I was like, yeah, but. But social media isn't actually going to drive the needle for you.
Nathan Yeung: They're like, okay, so then maybe they'll come to the conclusion saying, Hey, we want to do webinars. I go, you know what? I agree with that. I think webinars would be great. Do you have a team member that'd be willing to do that? Yes. All right. Checkbox. So it's sustainable and practical. So why don't we do that webinar?
Nathan Yeung: And what we're going to do is we're going to take that webinar. We're going to make shorts and when we're going to make. Content from that, right? So that's what I call my backpacking. You have a core activity that drives a core need. And then what you take is you take that core activity and you hopefully repurpose it for other things.
Nathan Yeung: And you try to be efficient with your workflow. So [00:09:00] exactly what Gary Vee is saying is, is that you're doing something already. Take that workflow. And make more work out of it because you're already doing it. So therefore it's easier for you. That is though, I'm going to say easier said than done. So, which is the whole point of a simple framework, because in order to do that, you have to be mindful enough of knowing what you need to do, or you should be doing while you're doing something.
Nathan Yeung: So, you know, Gary is saying that, but at the same time, most people don't even understand how to make the content. People don't know how to produce the content. People don't know how to edit the content. People don't know how to distribute the content. So it's like, Gary's making a very complex idea sample, which is, hey, you're producing something, produce more.
Nathan Yeung: But it's just kind of more like, okay, you can produce more, now what?
Claire: And that's what we're getting to, like, how do we prioritize in creating that? I really like that because here in real time, we're making a YouTube video. We're making a podcast. [00:10:00] My editor is going to spit it into two reels. I'm going to make a LinkedIn post.
Claire: And it took many years for me to get to this point, to have a team, to have people to do this. And so if we go back to someone that doesn't have 10 years of resources and building that, What? framework do you see is the most effective to come out of the gate starting something in the next week that is most achievable that you've, built for your clients or you've recognized for yourself the best framework to approach marketing.
Nathan Yeung: whole sustainable and practical approach. If we want to talk about something where, you know, I think another framework that's really important is understanding that every touch point has an impact and influence.
Nathan Yeung: And if you understand that things have impact and influence that then that in itself is a prioritization metric that you can measure against. And so. You know, one of the key things that I think is, really, really important is video content. And it's not that [00:11:00] I think that video content actually has an incredibly high level of impact influence.
Nathan Yeung: I think it has a reasonable level. It it's the fact that it's almost a form of product led growth. And so a lot of people go, Nathan, why do you produce all these shorts? And I go, I don't actually care who watches them. It's my goal is actually not to build a massive audience. My goal is actually for anyone that ever finds me on the ethernet somewhere around the world that they want to learn anything more than me.
Nathan Yeung: They have active resources out there to see what my personality is and what my perspective is. And they can do that in their own time. They can do it when they're on the toilet, if they're bored. And that's the whole point of being. Generating content is actually you're generating trust on the medium of which they choose at the time of which they choose.
Nathan Yeung: And that's what product led growth is. And that's my definition of it. No, and I
Claire: like it because you said something that I think I'd like to just like comment on this and hear your perspective. We [00:12:00] agree or disagree live in a time where, I remember the first iterations of Facebook is like I got 10 likes on my photo.
Claire: As a society, we have Created value for ourselves by likage, if that's word, or, you know, followership. And unfortunately, the more as we dive into marketing and we look at the analytics and we look at the value of like, what's the best conversion. It's not really, you know, everyone thinks, you know, go on to social media.
Claire: How do we change the mindset of recognizing that? Maybe. That is not the value that we really should be looking for, because you said, you know, a contrarian approach. And I like that because we need more people to challenge the notion of what success is, what is the growth.
Claire: You're not looking for a million followers, but you're looking for something else. Why and how did you come to this mindset? And how can we [00:13:00] help? Others to recognize the value doesn't actually come from this massive following.
Nathan Yeung: Don't get me wrong. I think the more massive, the falling, the higher probability of success, and I think there's certainly a correlation in that, but it would not be indicative always being a success.
Nathan Yeung: And a great example of that, I can't remember, there was this famous influencer that had like a million followers and she launched this t shirt and she sold nine.
Claire: And I know what you're talking about. I think
Nathan Yeung: it was, it was a viral sensation that it was a joke, right? So, so obviously there was a lots of attention on whether or not her followers were fake or blah, blah, blah, but, but there was no intentionality around that.
Nathan Yeung: And I think that's important. So I think it's the intention that is really important. And that's why people who try to cheat the system in terms of getting followers, they recognize that they don't get conversions at the end because they're cheating it. So that might be doing clickbaity articles, clickbaity [00:14:00] information.
Nathan Yeung: You're too broad on your, on your ideal customer profile. So therefore you're attracting audience, which actually doesn't serve your need or serve the need that you're serving. And I think at the end of the day, we do live in a society where metrics is and are always used as a vanity metric.
Nathan Yeung: And because of that, we have a skewed perspective of what that means. You know, there's tons of articles talking about how PR for a venture capital backed SaaS company is typically a joke because it doesn't necessarily mean they're actually making money. and mind you, I want to use Uber as a great example of that because Uber for the longest time wasn't making money, but everyone under the sun thought they were making money and it comes to show you there's a lot of fake it till you make it mentality because,
Nathan Yeung: some truth in some businesses where you will not make money for years before you make money. And open AI is a great example of that, right? Open AI is a perfect example because people go, Oh my God, look how much money they're making. Yeah. But you also don't recognize how [00:15:00] many years they were putting money into something that was not making a dollar, right?
Nathan Yeung: So there's like, they're building an asset and they know that in order to build that asset, they have to invest money. But for a SAS company, realistically, bootstrap wise, you could make money within a year. The first three weeks on a true P and L perspective. So this idea of like exposure and reach means success.
Nathan Yeung: It really isn't. And it's really important for everyone to understand. It's like, you can get leads, but what you need are conversions. And this is something that I, I, I really actually quite. Quite intensely argue with, with a lot of companies about is I go, you guys are way too focused on your top of funnel numbers.
Nathan Yeung: I get that you want top of funnel numbers. I get the top of funnel numbers are indicative of how much more come down the funnel. But if all you do is. Force your marketing team to be only targeting these, these, these top of funnel numbers, you are going to be handicapping yourself in the sense that they will not feel comfortable to actually try to qualify and bring good leads.
Nathan Yeung: So all we're doing is [00:16:00] 1 reason really kind of wasting your time and energy on MQLs that don't matter. Wasting the cost of that because your Mars stack typically is based on users or how many people sign up and three, they're not going to promote ideas. that are good for your conversions because you're promoting them in ICOs because that's all they're thinking about.
Nathan Yeung: They're thinking about top of funnel. So we, tend to focus on these numbers truthfully, just because they make ourselves feel better. There's a lot of times more often than not, they're not going to be useful for you.
Claire: And it's interesting. I've heard lots of stories where you have a hundred people on your email list and they're making more money because they've gone so deeply to their customer audience to deliver what they're looking for.
Claire: How can you create that? So, let's say you get them into your funnel. Top of funnel, you've gotten them in. What is that? Something that people are lacking or not specializing in. Is it creating the persona, the different journeys for them to go through? [00:17:00] Where is there that gap? Because I agree with you, I have seen it so many times, floodgates are open, everyone's coming in, but then to get them that, you know, whether it's the Karen or the Susie or whoever, however, they've developed that persona, What they're looking at in the analytics, looking at the data, why do they not take it further to really create that deep connection, knowing that that person wants something to come into their mailbox, literally mailbox, or someone else wants to get a personalized email every week, where's the gap?
Nathan Yeung: I think the gap is that. We all hate long term thinking because it's my entire book is on this, right? We're, we're lazy. We want instant gratification. We have a tendency not to gravitate towards things that are mid to long term because we don't see the gratification. And you can see that in all kinds of things.
Nathan Yeung: And then you see people who are successful not doing that. So therefore it perpetuates our need to do it. so I've been leaning more and more into [00:18:00] this actually in the last couple of years is I call it, network effects. Let's overgeneralize this. Let's say all I want to talk to are Hong Kong immigrants that immigrated in a period of time to Vancouver who are in business and successful business.
Nathan Yeung: So I'm going to say 50 employees or more. And if I generate content specific to them. Which is specific to their cultural background, specific to why they moved specific to why they left China specific to the business of their size. One, it's going to be very personalized to, I'm not going to get a ton of subscribers.
Nathan Yeung: No. Three, the 10 people that sign up likely know each other. Yeah. And what happens when 10 people know you a lot, actually
Claire: it's yes,
Nathan Yeung: it ripples. And what's more important is those 10 people likely know. the same people around them. And so what ends up happening to your brand? The The most [00:19:00] powerful thing I tell people is when you get your name brought up to the same person twice from two different people, your trust goes from like zero to like infinity.
Nathan Yeung: Yeah. And what I think is Sad for a lot of owners and businesses is they don't know that power of that because they're not patient enough and they don't want to be patient enough, which I can totally empathize and understand. And when you do that though, you forget that actually when this thing gets scale, it's like Lululemon, because that's exactly what, that's exactly how Lululemon like start built their communities.
Nathan Yeung: If you look at any of the successful brands, And how they act like Instagram. It's a great example. Right. Yeah, they all started with a very, very small community. And what ends up happening is, is what you're really doing is you're, you're creating this very small critical mass, but that critical mass compounds, and it's [00:20:00] very much, very different than if you look at it.
Nathan Yeung: So I want you everyone to think about this. Think about a really, really dense planet. Let's call it in Vancouver.
Claire: Yeah, I was like, I'm thinking, well, okay, what city here?
Nathan Yeung: Yeah, let's think Vancouver. Let's just say I have a really, really dense community in Vancouver, and I want you guys to think about it like a planet, okay?
Nathan Yeung: But it's so tight, it's so dense, so it has a ton of gravitational force. Now, I want you to think of an asteroid field that's spread across Canada, and then I want you to ask the same question of how much gravitational field does each of the asteroids have. None.
Nathan Yeung: And so what sucks is you start with a tiny asteroid in Vancouver. And then it builds, and then it becomes a little tiny moon, then it becomes a planet, and then it becomes even more powerful. When you have an asteroid field that's spread across Canada, which by the way is a massive landmass for a very small population, you can understand how much interaction happens.
Nathan Yeung: And it's very little. So all you have [00:21:00] done is you've built and spent a ton of time and energy to make a relationship across the world, essentially, of which has no impact to anyone else you are trying to talk to. And so that's why I, you know, like for even some of the venture capital companies that I've talked to, I said, okay, you guys have half a million dollar budget, what do you plan to do?
Nathan Yeung: It's like, oh, we're doing we're going to put an ad site. I was like, okay, where are you putting the ads? But they're at Canada. I was like, no, they're like, what do you mean? No, I was like, no. Well, what would you suggest Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, maybe not Montreal, because you're going to have to do French.
Nathan Yeung: So let's take that out and let's do Calgary. Or Victoria. And then they go, okay, well that seems small. I was like, exactly.
Nathan Yeung: I want everyone in Vancouver to know you. I want everyone in Calgary to know you. Do you want everyone in Winnipeg to know you? And are you going to do that in such a way where you maybe, maybe no offense to anyone, but is that going to move the needle for your business based on the, target demographic that you have or any of the TAM studies that you have?
Nathan Yeung: The reality is, is that you need to [00:22:00] go into a city and be known. You have to build trust and frequency builds trust. So do you want to show an ad once to a random person across Canada, or do you want to show multiple ads, multiple creatives, multiple valuable messages to the same people in a single city?
Claire: No brainer, but we don't think like that because we're all guilty of it. No matter where we are on our journey. I think there's always that.
Claire: Now it's such a good visualization, but I do feel post pandemic businesses, there is that. crushing heaviness that I see where there needs to be that, okay, in the next 24 hours, I got to come up with something that is generating a short term revenue plan. You know, I always say I have the 50 year business plan because we need to think like that. We need to create relationships that take who knows how long, but then there's those immediate conversions that are crucial to keep the lights on for businesses.
Claire: So how do, [00:23:00] how does one manage the two totally different like mindsets of like, okay, the sense of urgency conversion quickly, get some revenue coming in because we are not all, you know Sam Altman's and patient, what's the Dyson, what has 70 iterations of the Dyson vacuum and sitting quietly behind the curtain.
Claire: It's just not a reality for some small businesses to be sitting and waiting and playing that long game. So there has to be that balance. How do you approach that.
Nathan Yeung: So that's less of a marketing question now where my strategy and operations have for you. And what I think is really important is you're absolutely correct.
Nathan Yeung: And I hear you. A lot of us live in the reality that our sole proprietorship, our consulting business, our service size business, our influencer business, whatever it is. Is our livelihood. It is, it is literally paying our bills on a day to day basis. So they're like, thanks, Nathan. Thanks for letting me know that I need to be patient, but I need to eat tomorrow.
Nathan Yeung: and so what [00:24:00] I think is really important is just on a strategy perspective is it's okay for you to take opportunistic deals. It's okay for you to do that, but you have to be mindful of that approach. You have to be mindful to make the plan to adjust, right? So there has to be something done in systematically for you to understand.
Nathan Yeung: It's like, look, maybe I want to just be a person who does meal planning in Vancouver. And it's really important for me. And it's something I love and I enjoy, and I'm having a hard time finding Vancouver clients, but I have all these random people across Canada who want to do it. That's great. Take the random people across Canada, but then the moment that someone from Vancouver comes to you, work on them harder than you did for anyone else and then start transitioning your plan so that you are a little bit more intentional, a little bit more focused, not because I'm trying to say that the opportunities are not good things.
Nathan Yeung: Look, if you end up getting a bunch of opportunities in Calgary and you get critical mass there, then you need to actually ask yourself, it's Vancouver where I want to be focusing on. Why don't I just take the easier route because now I have critical mass in Calgary. So make the shift. [00:25:00] So I'm not saying that you have to die by this rule.
Nathan Yeung: You should have a plan to find how you want to grow your business. And that plan should adjust based on kind of levers that are catalysts to your business. And that catalyst is. If you're seeing scale in an area, focus where the scale is, right? Yes. So don't stress yourself out in the sense that you started this business of wanting to be a Vancouver meal planner, but for some reason now you have all these people in Calgary.
Nathan Yeung: That's fine. This is nothing wrong with that, but yeah, but don't force that, right? So yeah, maybe you still want to go in Vancouver, build your business in Calgary, then start building back in Vancouver, and then when it Calgary gets to the point where it's big enough, forget about Toronto. Optimize everything you're doing in Calgary, then focus on Vancouver.
Nathan Yeung: Why same time zone. So it's going to be easier for you efficiently and operationally. So my suggestion is, is take the opportunity because you need to live. I get that, but be intentional in how you're going to approach that and be intentional and to follow a plan, which means [00:26:00] you're trying to go towards something, which is more sustainable.
Nathan Yeung: So don't, don't live in this constant reactivity. You can, because that's your reality. That's you today. And I feel that but, don't let the reactivity be a thing for you. And be intentional with that reactivity and plan around that reactivity. So it actually gets to a much larger outcome versus an outcome that just happens by happy stance.
Claire: And this is why entrepreneurship, Nathan is not linear. It's, it's always shifting
Claire: [00:27:00] One more question focusing around this idea that you gave a great suggestion and I love the idea. We have Hong Kong immigrants coming to Vancouver. The thing is, that makes perfect sense. And it's like, okay, of course.
Claire: But a lot of people really have a hard time being like, well, who, what is that unique segmentation that I know? Eh? I can really speak to B. I know that there's enough volume or something. For individuals listening to this, for businesses listening [00:28:00] to this, they know that this is obviously makes so much sense and the conversion is going to be higher because of that impact and especially being the small town entrepreneur.
Claire: This is what builds our businesses, our companies, our relationship is that knocking on the neighbor's door, seeing someone on the street and building that that conversion is higher. But. If you have a lot of these different, we have persona one, like you gave the Hong Kong business individual coming from immigrating to Vancouver.
Claire: What if we have multiple of those very specialized segmentations? How do we choose it? And be like, I'm going to focus all that because part of us as marketers, as someone that cares about people, you're almost like neglecting another group or individual or, and it can be very hard to focus. What do you say to when you're choosing that to really hone in?
Nathan Yeung: So [00:29:00] I hear you and from what I understand is you're, kind of towing the line of like what economically makes sense. And I think you're right. So I've simplified it in the sense of what I've just said, which is, you know, this Hong Kong immigrant thing. But that's a simplification. There's the complexities that you're talking about, which is, Hey, Nathan, what, what are the economics around this?
Nathan Yeung: This is actually make sense. And you're absolutely correct. So you, you want to be as fine tuned as possible. At the same time, you need to balance the economics of it, which is what is my TAM? What is my total adjustable market? And. You then you have to understand is whether or not that total addressable market even has that need and are they willing to pay for that need at a price that makes whatever your goals for your business is right and That's business strategy business homework marketing research stuff where you have to do and I don't have a simple answer for that Besides you got to go knock on some doors and you're going to get some real feedback.
Nathan Yeung: And I think that's really, really important for any business. Great. When it [00:30:00] comes to specialization and focusing, all I have to say is there's a reason why fusion restaurants suck. Because when an Italian guy and a Chinese guy get into a restaurant together and they call it Chinese Italian All you get are pissed off Chinese people and pissed off Italians.
Claire: And a confusing customer base.
Nathan Yeung: And a confusing customer base of which you don't even know how to service because now you have Italians and Chinese people in the same restaurant. Do you serve Maltai or do you serve super Tuscans? You don't know.
Claire: I'm loving your analogies. It's
Nathan Yeung: really true. Yeah. And so, I think what's.
Nathan Yeung: important is, is like, this is actually a, it was just released for Sass North. I'll be speaking on main stage alongside like Neil Patel. I have a, yeah, well I'm not with him. I'm, I'm on the same stage as him though.
Claire: It doesn't matter. Neil Patel.
Nathan Yeung: Neil Patel's first, I'm like third on the speaking back.
Claire: That is awesome. I, you can tell Neil that I ask what would Neil do in this situation into uh, perplexity.
Nathan Yeung: And, and so I'm talking [00:31:00] about something called trust as a currency and it's a bit more TEDx y talk versus a marketing talk. But the reason why you actually focus and personalize is because there's this triangle.
Nathan Yeung: One of the triangles is empathy. And if you actually think about empathy and the fact in, in like the terms of marketing, it's actually like personalization. Yeah. And the more you practice empathy, The more trust you have and the more trust you have, the more likely they're going, you're going to have impact and influence as a brand, which is the very reason why when your friends or your family recommends something, they have massive impact and influence.
Nathan Yeung: Because there's so much empathy, they know you, they've known you for years. They've talked to you about things that a corporation would never talk to them. And so that's why specialization focus is so important. It's because ultimately when someone goes out to buy anything, they ultimately need to have trust.
Nathan Yeung: And that trust is [00:32:00] whatever I'm buying will serve my desired outcome. And if you don't personalize, You're a stranger. That's really what you are. you're the white van giving out candy to kids. That's who you are.
Claire: Oh, no, no, no. We don't want that.
Nathan Yeung: but imagine if someone came to you and said, Hey, I have life insurance.
Nathan Yeung: And they came out of a white van. Bye bye. It's like, Oh dude, like really good pitch. I just, I don't feel comfortable. so marketing is actually about trust, which is why personalization is so important because if you can't practice empathy, people don't feel like they should trust you because they don't feel like you know them.
Nathan Yeung: So there is this really awkward balance where you have to figure out, I need to so well to a customer that a stranger. Can feel trustworthy. And I have to do it in such a way that makes sense for my business. So I'm trying my best [00:33:00] not to oversimplify, but sometimes simplify. And I'm also caveating when I do, because I also don't want people to feel like when I give this advice that I'm not.
Nathan Yeung: Aware of the shortcomings of them because every simplification has shortcomings. So the oversimplification is yes, you need to personalize, but yes, you also have to balance that against the economics of that group in that audience.
Claire: We could talk hours on this but Nathan, it would be remiss to actually, totally not talk about.
Claire: Artificial intelligence in this time in our world where generative AI is taking everything by storm. It's transforming our industries. Can you speak to your perspective on how generative AI has been a positive or a negative approach in the way we're working today and how someone that is dabbling, so not sure how it's going to play into their day to day operations and their [00:34:00] marketing efforts, how would you tell them to approach it today?
Claire: Because it is the most pushed on us. There's so much noise in the space. How does a business Approach, Jenner of AI in the world of marketing.
Nathan Yeung: Gender of AI is not an NLB all, but it's done a great job of getting people to 70%.
Claire: I have said the exact same line so many times, a hundred meters sprint, you get to 70 fast.
Nathan Yeung: Yeah. And so like, just recognize it's going to get you to somewhere real quick, but it's not going to get you to the, the perfect end destination.
Nathan Yeung: And that's where the workflows come in. So just recognize that you'll still need to build a workflow, just like anything else in your organization. It is a accelerator of workflows. It is the accelerator of generating work product, but it is not going to make you a winner. If you are incredibly intelligent, incredibly technical, you can maybe get to a 90 percent product, but that also means [00:35:00] a complex workflow.
Nathan Yeung: So we're not talking about what anyone else can do, right? We're talking about you've invested time to generate a workflow that is complex and customized for your business. So you can probably get the 90%, but you're still going to need to fine tune at the end. If you want to be the best,
Claire: you speak to workflows.
Claire: I speak to workflows. What is
Nathan Yeung: A workflow is as simple as the fact that I know that I'm going to get a product. Then it needs to go through a manual review. Then it needs to go through another generator AI workflow. Then it needs to go through another, you know manual workflow, and then it's going to get to a final product.
Nathan Yeung: Like a workflow is simply steps. And I think what a lot of people think is, is like, I go into gen AI and that's not, well,
Claire: that's fine. I asked chat, GBT, how do I do this? And they decide to jump off if the answer doesn't resonate well. And if it's good, they'll use it, implement it. But then again, you're showing up for the world at level B.
Nathan Yeung: Yeah. And there's a reason why when you go online and you pay a lawyer 5 for for consultations, that it's not going to be that great. Are you [00:36:00] paying? It's the whole thing. It's just like, there are workflows and experiences behind these things that get you to a better product. So if you invest more, you'll get more.
Nathan Yeung: And if you want to think that Gen AI is this simple switch, it is, but it's not going to get you the best product.
Claire: Nathan, I could ask you a million questions. I absolutely am really fascinated with how you take these complexities. And simplify it. It's the irony in that. And to actually create a visualization. And I love how you've been able to recognize that it's just not, everything's not black and white when it comes to marketing. there's so many nuances and levels of different experiences and skill sets. To wrap it up, what are, what are your the common mistakes that you've made other businesses, marketers have make when they're trying to approach, you know, the most effective thing.
Claire: What is it that you see with the [00:37:00] sense of being overwhelmed in gen AI and approaching marketing? What is something that you notice that is a common mistake and what we can do? And a piece of advice that if they didn't hear anything in this episode, and they do one. Thing today, what would you suggest? Another loaded question for you.
Nathan Yeung: There's a lot. I would say that your first impression means more than you think.
Nathan Yeung: It means more than you think. And I don't care what you say to me. I don't care how much you try to debate with me, how you show up, how you communicate, how you look, unfortunately will play a judgment. And the reason it is, is because we are human. And my entire book is about how we are lazy and what happens in laziness is heuristics.
Nathan Yeung: And you know, it's a form of heuristic stereotypes. And why do we have stereotypes? Because we're lazy. Why are we lazy? Because we like to make decisions and we don't like to overthink because we like to conserve energy. So, you know what that means is if you don't [00:38:00] show up the way you think your customers need you to show up, AKA trying to sell insurance out of a white van at parks, not going to do you any favors.
Nathan Yeung: So, just remember. That as much as you want to be you, which is appreciated, and that could be your intention to be, you recognize that you will be climbing up Mount Everest on the steepest side of the mountain, not the one that's been carved out for people to travel on. You made that decision. So you've made it more difficult for yourself.
Nathan Yeung: So just recognize. That you need to show up a certain way for people to trust you. And you can, you have full control on that. You have full control on that.
Claire: Love it. That is a great way to wrap up today's episode on the small town entrepreneur podcast. Nathan, where can people just follow you to hear your words of wisdom, to connect with you?
Claire: Where can they go?
Nathan Yeung: On LinkedIn. There's only like [00:39:00] one marketing guy that posts a whole bunch of reels with my name. So last name, Y E U N G first name, Nathan. Or you can find me on my website, which is www. findyouraudience. online. Or if you just look me up online, you'll probably see all the podcasts I'm on.
Nathan Yeung: So that's also another way that you can
Claire: find out more about me. And we will put everything in the show notes for you to continue learning from Nathan. And I'm excited to keep following and see what you're up to. Thank you, Nathan, for sharing your wisdom, your experience, and all the things under the marketing world.
Claire: Very much appreciated.
Nathan Yeung: Thanks, Claire.
