Graham O'Connor
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Graham: my mantra that I kind of go with for the last 10 years is, is go with your natural flow. You know, I think you can end up in different things in life where.
Your job or different things you're doing become very much a chore, you know, and because it's not a natural energy, towards it. I'd say always go towards your natural energy, go with your natural curiosities and interests. Because in doing that, you're going to succeed in those areas far more than anybody else because it's, doesn't feel like work to you.
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We have an awesome episode today. I am so excited. We are sitting with Graham [00:01:00] O'Connor, the product lead for connect. com and innovative and incredible community that I'm now part of under HubSpot designed for marketers, customer service representatives, and sales professionals. Anyone that's trying to sell a product or a service in their business.
He highlights how connect. com, a platform that he has built that bridges the gap in the authentic professional networking by offering a space where members can learn from each other, share insights and build meaningful relationships. He has a mantra of go with your natural flow that we're going to look at today and why.
He feels so passionate about that. Graham encourages embracing our passions and curiosities to find success and fulfillment. So here we go. Let's jump in and talk to Graham right in Dublin, Ireland.
Claire: Welcome to the show. I am so [00:02:00] excited. Graham, how excited are you? One to 10 to be here. I'm
Graham: 11. I wouldn't even put it on the, on the. Is that
Claire: the Irish Lying?
Graham: I think it's a lying. What's that kind of slapstick film?
Turn it up to 11 on the ramp. I'm trying to get raw. I love it. There
Claire: is some technical questions I want to get into. People that know me, I don't, I'm not good at the small talk. I go right deep in, like, what's, like, what's What's your life's mission? So I'm working on, you know, moving into that, but something I've been really interested in asking people, what's something you do every single day?
I mean, you can't cop out and say you brush your teeth, but what's something that people wouldn't know that you do every day? What
Graham: do I do every day? Well, I do brush my teeth because, you know, dental hygiene, very important,
Claire: you know. Yeah, little PSA here, okay. You're biding time. I like it, but that's okay. I know.
I,
Graham: I, I mean, I, I'm a recent parent. You [00:03:00] make your
Claire: bed every day. Like, Yeah, I'm
Graham: a recent parent. So I feel like, oh, my lifestyle, a lot more boring. And I, my life at the moment revolves around my baby girl and work, you know? So, That's fair. Every single day. Lately, I play with, play box with my little daughter on her play mat and we make some towers and she knocks them down before I go
Claire: to work.
Well, you know what? That's unique because guess what? You haven't done that for probably the last 30 years, right? So that's new. And I bet you change a diaper every day. I sure do. Yes. Changes. I love it. Okay. We're gonna, you've had a really unique journey. Your path, like, you know, when people hear what you do, which I'm going to ask you, what's your title?
Because you have a lot of titles and you've had a lot of titles. What do you do today? So today
Graham: I'm the product lead of a new professional network by hopes. com connect. com. And so [00:04:00] we're creating a new network that's really just focused on marketers, customer service, and sales professionals. And so we want to create a network bringing everybody together where people can learn from each other, grow their careers, help each other out, and really create authentic connections online.
And then hopefully, you know, they also meet in real life at events and things like that. Like this! Like this, exactly
Claire: like this. This is like, this is the thing. I think it's so cool because I love transparency. Maybe it's a good thing. Maybe it's a bad thing. You know, TMI, there's a fine line, right? But I find it's really important.
That I like to say, this is how it happened because I like to say I love people. You clearly love people. This is what you've dedicated your life to building networks, building, bringing people together. And so I like to share this, like how this happened and you know, I think hype people meet other hype people.
You hype other people. I am a [00:05:00] huge. I can't believe I'm saying this was, I haven't been a fangirl ever for anything like, you know, Spice Girls came and went whatever. And we're dating, I'm dating myself, but you know, marketing against the grain is a podcast for those of you that have not listened, you need to, because it is all the things.
That one needs in your marketing world and entertainment. And because I was probably a very avid listener and engaged, Connor or Connor Graham, Graham and I connected. And it's just really cool how this world. You know, connects because this is the small town entrepreneur. We're going to go sideways here, but do you think you need to be in a big city to have big opportunities?
Graham? I don't think
Graham: so. I think maybe in the past. Yes. I would say. But I think as time's gone on, particularly, I think COVID was a big accelerator for remote work. And particularly in the tech world where, you know, I spent my whole [00:06:00] career. And I feel like there's less of a need to be in the big cities in this world because we have the different technologies like we're doing today, talking over Zoom, the quality is so excellent.
And I think you can get so much more done, you know, working remote and not being in the big cities. Far more than we have in the past, you know, so I, I, I would confidently say the answer to that today is, is no, I, I don't believe that to be true ,
Claire: thank you. Because you know what, this could have, this question could have really backfired on me,
So this is perfect and it's true. And I think, I do think this was happening. Way before COVID, but I think COVID was a catalyst to the movement of tech and how fast we're moving and how connected we can be with a click of a button and your journey going into where you are today. And you started in technology, but how did you know, like, what were some of the major experiences that kind of led you into the career [00:07:00] in specifically product development, but now it's very people focused product development.
Graham: Yeah. So yeah, like I, I started my career in software. I was originally a software engineer absolutely love coding, fell in love with coding. That's awesome. And and so I, I've been working, you know, many different businesses on big corporations and some small startups. And, and I found over time, I was becoming more drawn to the business and strategy side and creating good team dynamics and what it takes to create a high performance product team more so than coding day to day, you know.
And so yeah, I made the decision about six, seven years ago to, to, you know, switch out of being an engineer and moved into product management and it's been one of the best decisions I've ever made. I've absolutely loved it.
Claire: And it's cool because I think people like you make the best leaders, especially in technology because you have.
A [00:08:00] complete understanding of every the back end, front end, all the experiences, and which is really neat while you're going through a specifically in the technology industry. Has there any been major lessons that you've learned that have really impacted like something, maybe a huge mistake you've made or something because it's fascinating.
I, I see it all the time. There's a huge movement towards building authentic communities, right? Like we've talked about AI is going to standardize. Average. Right? I think in the words of Kip or Kieran and other people, you know, this, this, everyone has access to average level, but what's going to make something great is the human connectivity.
So, what are some of the lessons that you've, you've bridged between the two worlds, but what were some of the big lessons that really pushed you into those spaces?
Graham: In terms of, in terms of making an online network.
Claire: Yeah, or it doesn't have to be an online network, but [00:09:00] that community focus. How did you know?
Because you seem to. Be on the pulse of what's next, right? And you know where customers and individuals are leaning towards. What insights did you have or know that pushed you into working in the community space? Yeah, like, I
Graham: think one thing that is very clear, like, we kind of started talking about, like, do you need to be in a big city to, you know, to get opportunities?
You know, I think we can confidently say the answer to that is no. But the fact that work has kind of changed a lot in terms of how we work, in terms of where we work, I think there is a lack of connection between people. Like not that strong connection that we used to have. And so the real one for this, like we found starting connect.
com and we've had a couple of different workshops where we get some of the communities together. And people have been waiting for these things. You're like, thank you so much for putting these events together. Cause like they do, people just lack this connection. We kind of sit [00:10:00] in our. Offices and bedrooms and, you know, see exactly.
Yeah. See less and less people every day. And, and there's just, there's a huge need to fill in that gap. And we don't want to fill that gap in with these kind of like, you know, connections that aren't real. We want to build these authentic connections where people really get to know each other. And so that's, that's like a huge opportunity that we
Claire: see.
And I think that's so cool. Every panel conversation I have with entrepreneurs starting their businesses, it all comes into that. They always lean towards the question of connectivity, you know, feeling like, how do I build a network? How do I do it? You know, they're not asking what's my cashflow, you know, how do I improve that?
They're asking, how do I stay motivated? How do I build out networks? So I think it's a, It's an amazing thing that you're building now, Graham, we're going to zoom out because you're building something. So, you know, you're used to coding and building a product [00:11:00] that you know exactly the steps that you need to, you know, more or less do.
But when you're working with people, there's a lot of more, there's so many other facets to consider, right? How human behavior, you know, changes the way we buy, the way we connect. When you're building something and you're trying to put something together, what, like, what's your process of working?
Because you can't just dive in and start building something and hope that it works, right? What are some of the things, the steps that you do? Do you go sit outside in nature and grab a pen and paper? And are you philosophizing or are you, are you in focus groups? Like, what is your approach? To really conquering the challenges of developing these products and servicing the market needs, especially with technology moving so quickly.
Yeah. So
Graham: I'd say there's very little of sitting under a tree with a pen and paper, you know, and ideas, you know I wish [00:12:00] that was the case, but no honestly, you know, predicting at the start, you just need to talk to. A lot of people you know, you're, you're going to have some hypothesis to think like, okay, I think there's a gap in the market or I think, you know, we were well positioned to execute on a certain opportunity.
Claire: Can we stop you there? Sorry. That's so key. You are like, I think people like you, that's your brilliance. That's your genius. You said, I think that there's an opportunity, but like. What, what got you to that? That's like that. I know it's funny because I talk to people like you and like, that's your genius.
What is that? How did you come to knowing? That's an opportunity. I mean, in this case, sorry to interrupt
Graham: you. Yeah. Yeah. And in this case, again, it's like talking to people and we see the opportunity of like people lack authentic connection. They find it hard to connect with other professionals in a, in a real way.
Yeah. And we see that and we hear it. And we talked to different kind of, [00:13:00] you know, areas of the market or different professionals, like for instance, early days and connect. com. We did a lot of research around, you know small business founders, you know and small business founders in particular find that they can be quite lonely, you know, like in terms of leaning on other small business founders to.
to keep them motivated, help them on the way and ask for advice and all of that. And it's just hearing and seeing those things in everyday life and observing what's going on around us, you know and then we start to dig in there and we kind of like, okay, well, we think we see this opportunity and then we're, we're having many, many conversations with.
With more and more of these people to see like, well, how real is this? Like what sort of problems are, are they having with this? Where can we help? Like what, where are they underserved today? You know and then in terms of bringing things out to market, particularly at HubSpot, we like to move extremely fast.
Like we won't, we won't spend two, three years developing something and then get our first user on it. We tend to build in public, you [00:14:00] know, and we like to, like to get, you know what we believe is, is that MVP together and get it out in front of customers, keep talking let's see where we can improve constant customer interviews and, and building upon there to see where we've gone right, see where we've gone wrong and, and you know fix our mistakes very quickly, you know?
So that's, that's how we like to, like to do
Claire: things. Thanks. I, I love that because that screams confidence, right? A lot of people, well, if you talk to small business owners, they hold onto things for so long before executing because of the fear of that failure, but you're confident in the product. Then how are, when you're building this out, like, so let's say connect.
com, I've been part of tons of little online communities and there's Facebook, there's tons of opportunity. Your community, is it? I mean, I interacted with connect. com for the first time and I loved within seconds, I could start a conversation. So [00:15:00] the onboarding process, I will say publicly live here. It was just so quick to get into a conversation with someone.
I've been on other platforms where the onboarding process, it takes too long to fill out my profile. Everything just takes too long. And then you're like. The excitement of chatting with an individual was gone, you know, because by the time I get in, I'm like, Oh, I've typed too much. Hi everyone. So that's like my user experience.
What separates, because there's this balance of practicality you have to consider and innovation moving so quickly. How, what separates connect. com from all these other communities that you're building? What do you think is really unique about this product? Yeah, like
Graham: I think what we were trying to do with Connect is it's more of kind of a community first network.
I find a lot of, I don't know about you, but I find a lot of networks out there are quite self promotion rather than, you know, authentically helping people. And so we're really trying to build a network that is more [00:16:00] about authentic connection rather than, you know, self promotion and spam and advertising and all that sort of stuff, you know, so.
And that's really what we're trying to do. Create a more, kind of, personable network. Some, a place where you can really get to know people. Where people aren't just trying to promote their products and advertise out there. They actually are trying to make, you know, real connections in the professional
Claire: world.
And I definitely see that because the segmentation that you've set up, right? So when you jump into the community, you know, where, which community you want to be a part of, where it's going. So if you want AI, you have your AI, you have your marketing against the grain. I love that. Now, small business owners, this is a huge struggle because they're wearing a hundred thousand different hats every day.
And as we're seeing. You know, more than anything, everyone says like content is king. And now it's really like user, the user experience is so crucial because we have every tool [00:17:00] at our fingertips. If someone is wearing all the hats, what are the number one thing that you see as something that a small business owner could be integrating every day without.
You know, essentially killing themselves and putting another 10, 15 hours into their workweek to get that strong customer feedback or that creating a great user experience. What's something that they could implement today, this week?
Graham: Yeah, I mean, I know that sounds very simple, but the thing is to make sure to carve out the time to talk to your customers on a regular basis.
In terms of like implementing something that you can get a lot of feedback very quickly. I would definitely recommend into implementing some sort of like. CSAT survey tool within your product, you know, if you've an online digital experience or implement surveys with your customers after they purchase from you or after they've had some interaction with you that's a good kind of process and habit to get into, so anytime they have an interaction with you, make [00:18:00] sure you're getting some feedback over time when you're getting volume in there, you're going to see those very clear patterns in terms of like, Okay.
Where can I improve? What are my customers really happy about? And, and so for those things you improve, fix those. And things they're really happy about, lean into that more, you know yeah, those things are
Claire: key. And you know what, it's funny cause it's so, like you said, it sounds simple, but that feedback loop is so crucial.
At the same time, having so many conversations, because I work strictly with small businesses, the conversation always comes back to, there is that, are they ready to hear feedback? You know? They work so hard to execute it, if they're holding on to that, they're MVP and they finally put it out. Yeah. You know, there is that do, am I ready?
So I love that, you know, fail fast or get it out there. Absolutely.
Graham: Like I am like, I'm a huge believer in that, you know, like, because [00:19:00] you could continue going in this like very wrong direction for the sake of like. Maybe feeling a bit bad temporarily and it's only temporarily, you know, and you'd want to hear that sooner rather than later.
If you are going in the wrong direction, you'd be spending more of your time and money creating something that is not useful that people don't want or solves the problem that you're trying to solve in a not so good way. So I would say get things out in front of people as early as possible, even if it's just a.
Sketch on a piece of paper, you know, is like really easy to get it in front of people. And people
Claire: like that rawness, you know, they like being part of the conversation, especially if they're, if they're committed to what you're offering. I love that you have. So much, so much experience leading teams and building communities for the listeners that might be not executing [00:20:00] on the, you know, day to day, very small, you know, streamlining certain parts of operations in their business, but they are in a position that they're leading a team.
What is. What's the Graham O'Connor's secret sauce of building a team that is constantly keeping them stay on top of innovation, keeping them creative, you know, not losing that excitement. What's, what's the, what's the secret sauce? I mean, for me, the
Graham: secret sauce is like the team is only as good as the collective, right?
So it's like. It's not me, you know, it's, it's the entire team. And so I think I think the key is, is to get communication right within the team where, you know, I like creating an atmosphere in teams where everybody can be very open and honest with each other and have, have that freedom that everybody feels like they're expressing themselves, you know?
And so, you know, okay, I'm, I'm the product manager on [00:21:00] this team, but it's. Like all the ideas are not coming from me. Like I have a team of like very talented engineers, designers who, who have their eyes and ears open to everything out there. And so it'd be great in an environment where everybody feels heard.
Everybody can express themselves, bring their ideas to the table and, and feels very motivated to, to get after things. That to me is, is, is the secret to, to a
Claire: really good team. That was perfect because. Do you know Charles Duhigg wrote his second book. I always mess up the titles, like faster, smarter, it's, it's three words.
And he said exactly what you said. So it's nice to read it in a book and then hear it in on a, on a ground level. He says, give equal voices to your team members. And having that, just them contributing, which is so powerful. Again, it's these simple little things, but if it's consistency, the team feels heard.
I love [00:22:00] that. So if you were to go back in time, would you have changed the trajectory of going into being an engineer first? Or because there's going to be a lot of people listening in and they're like, well, Graham had the unique opportunity of having the, you know, engineering, the software background.
And then he's, you know, over time, someone that is considering where they want to go in their life. They, they love this strategy. They love problem solving. We love working with people. What would be a really good place if they don't have, because let's be honest, it's, it's, it's a different world, but I'm even able to do some JavaScript or Python, you know, with tools if I need to tweak something.
I am never going to code. I do not have that ability. But where should they start?
Graham: Yeah, I think it depends [00:23:00] on each individual, you know, like, do I have regrets starting in engineering? Absolutely not. You know what I mean? Like, I started out thinking like, okay, I wanted to get into technology. You know, when I was young, I was always drawn towards it.
But I didn't know a whole lot about the industry. I had no idea where to start. So I didn't purposely you know, saying, okay, I want to be an engineer. I want to program. Like, it's kind of something to just kind of, kind of fell into, you know? And I love it. I'd say move towards where you're naturally drawn.
Like there's many different avenues in terms of, you know, say if you're looking to get in things like product management, like product management is a funny one because there's no like. Course per se, there's like, there's no like,
Claire: oh
Graham: yeah, I did an undergrad in product management. People just come from like different areas and different backgrounds.
I think, um, you know, a lot, a lot of people might come from like business school and end up doing product management and people can take the route [00:24:00] I took, you know, and starting to engineer and find their way into it. And, but I think anybody who's starting there, there needs to be like, if you're getting a product management position in a company, You either need to have a deep knowledge of the existing product, which means you've kind of, you know, already working in the company.
So maybe you're, you're working in support, or maybe you're working in success and you're, you know, into intimately, like, aware of everything that goes on the product, or you need to have, you know, be a real expert in the problem area. So, you know, you might be An expert marketer or you know, something like that and coming in to work with a marketing product, or you need to have product management experience.
And I think you need like one of those three things in order to, to, to get a product role. A lot of companies also have like you know these associate product manager programs where it's typically people kind of come from like business schools and, you know, there might be like a one year.
Yeah. Kind of almost like an internship and, and you can get in, in, in true that way as [00:25:00] well. But like when you talk to like product managers, there's no clear path in terms of like, this, this is the road you should take, like do this step, then this step, then that, like it's, I don't know, people just kind of find themselves in this position from a various different
Claire: ways.
Totally. And I love that because I think it's important. Like I always laugh. Like I was a high school teacher for English and art. Yeah. And I'm obsessed with technology and what it's going to be. And this was something I secretly nerded out every night doing on my own. So I agree. I love that. It's just become, yeah, it's the path that you, you take that interests you now.
We have just a couple more questions and we'll wrap, but, and you know, I've been dying to ask this because it's a conversation all the time. And I was reading statistics 52%. It's gone up by a lot. People are very fearful of this new world we're entering with artificial [00:26:00] intelligence. You know, replacing them, replacing their jobs.
I have this conversation a lot, but I love hearing different perspectives. Someone in the product leadership, product management, especially you're sitting in tech all day long, what are your takes on how artificial intelligence is either going to, you know, be detrimental or it's going to be your co pilot?
What's your take on AI in, as we move forward?
Graham: Yeah, like, I don't see there, like, being this, like, real drastic change where suddenly there's, like, oh my god, there's so many people without jobs now. Like, I'm a big believer in, in, it's going to make everybody far more productive. I think every individual that's making use of AI will be able to do a hell of a lot more.
Than they were before. Like I'm sure like all of us in our day to day have these, you know, we spend an hour or two doing these kind of quite repetitive [00:27:00] tasks that we rather not be doing. And, and they're the things I see like AI being very good at, you know, things that are very repeatable that, you know, don't involve a lot of like creativity per se and don't need that kind of human touch, you know?
Yes. Yes. And so I, I see things like that like those sort of tasks being like totally automated. Naturally, there probably is like some types of jobs that, you know, would be like needed less. But like, that's the world. There's been jobs throughout time that you know, become become obsolete, but I don't see it being
Claire: For sure.
That's natural. It's so drastic.
Graham: Like one thing I compare it to, like, there'll be new jobs because of AI too, you know? Yes. Yes. If you think you're like free internet. There was no SEO optimizer job in the world, you know, but that is something that was created because of this new technology. So [00:28:00] I think while there's likely going to be some things that are, that are you know, change or not needed as, as much, there will be new jobs created because of AI, you know, and particularly in the West these days, in the Western world, like.
Employing people is now a, a problem. You know, it's very actually hard to get staff these days as well, you know, and you, you know a lot of, can you,
Claire: can you comment on that? Because it's interesting. In, in Canada, you're in Dublin, by the way. I love Dublin. I, I was a traveling photographer and I spent some time in Dublin and Lovely.
Yeah. , that's another conversation. But thank you for bringing that up because you see this globally. Yeah, what's happening there?
Graham: I don't know. You know, I wish I had some like great insight as to why that is the case. But you know, I'm sure you see the same in Canada, like so many places like looking for staff can't get [00:29:00] staff.
Claire: Like all levels. All levels. Yeah. All levels.
Graham: Yeah. You know, it's a big issue and I, I think like, you know, hopefully these sort of new technologies and things like that can help plug that gap as well. You know you, you, it, it actually held, holds back businesses quite a lot, just not being able to get staff these days, you know, wild.
Claire: Yeah. Yeah.
Graham: Yeah. So.
Claire: Sorry. It's not a lack of you offering the greatest work culture, right? Like that's the thing. So I always wonder where are these people hiding? Where did they go? Did they start working for themselves? I know for me, I like to work for myself because I'm my only responsibility, right? And I think that's where, so, okay.
So you don't have the answer. That's okay. Well, that will be another conversation. We're going to wrap up here with one last question to the first question is what is the number one piece of life advice, work career, all things wrapped up in one. That's kind of your mantra, [00:30:00] your model gets you out of bed, keeps you energized, keeps your team energized.
And then your favorite spot if someone's going to Dublin or maybe Ireland, where do they need to, like, the must place they need to go visit?
Graham: Okay, so the first one, I, I, my mantra that I kind of go with for the last 10 years is, is go with your natural flow. You know, I think you can end up in different things in life where.
Your job or different things you're doing become very much a chore, you know, and, and because it's not a natural energy, you don't have a natural energy towards it. I'd say always go towards your natural energy, go with your natural curiosities and interests. Because in doing that, you're, you're going to succeed in those areas far more than anybody else because it's, it's, it doesn't feel like work to you.
Claire: No. No. It's very exciting. This is awesome.
Graham: Exactly. [00:31:00] Exactly. And so, you know, that, that's my advice to, to people. I know that's like, it's not always possible. I'm, I'm quite privileged in terms of what I'm able to do these days but as much as you can. Yeah. I think that's.
Claire: But then you can get elements of that every day, like a conversation with someone on the street, you know?
Totally. It's totally possible. I love that. Okay. We're hitting up Ireland. Where, if we're flying to Ireland, well, for Canadians where are we going? So
Graham: I think if you're flying into Dublin, which I feel is where most people end up when they, when they go to Ireland, I would say get out of the city. I think there, what's really nice about Dublin is like.
You don't have to go too far to be in lovely nature. And, and so if you're a big outdoors fan, I'd recommend going to Wicklow, the Wicklow mountains there are gorgeous. There's a place called Glendalough, which I always bring my U. S. colleagues to when they're over because it's not too far away from the [00:32:00] city.
Gorgeous scenery you know, lovely fresh air and yeah, I'd recommend that. I think if you're going anywhere in Ireland, I think that the West Coast is the way to go. Kerry in particular is absolutely gorgeous lovely coastline, lovely beaches, again, lovely scenery. I'm spending so much days in our time indoors these days, I love to get out as much as I can.
You
Claire: know, particularly if the weather's nice. You are sitting under a tree sometimes. Sometimes
Graham: I can't say I'm there with a pen and paper, though, you know, that's okay.
Claire: I'm probably
Graham: there with a sandwich or something.
Claire: That is just as good. Oh, this is awesome. I am very, very honored to have you on the small town entrepreneur podcast.
Graham, you are a delight. Thank you so much for the work you do for our world. And for those of you. That are listening, where do you, do we want to push them to connect. com?
Graham: Absolutely. Yeah. I'd say go check out connect. [00:33:00] com and we're at our early beginnings on this network. We've a couple of communities there that we've created.
There's plenty more to come in particular ones for, for small company builders. And so, yeah, get over to connect. com and I'd love to, I'd love to hear from you all. Please reach out to me.
Claire: Lovely. Thank you so much.
Graham: Cheers. See you now. Thanks for having me.
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