14:28:14 We're going live. Here we go. We're going to rock this. We are going live or not live. Well, kind of.
14:28:23 Okay.
14:28:26 Rachel, welcome to the small town entrepreneur podcast. I am so delayed to have you here, especially for those of you listening.
14:28:37 Good heavens, you think technology is supposed to make our lives easier. I will tell you we tried to do a live Facebook streaming that seemed to be more complicated anyway.
14:28:49 Here we are. You're so patient and from what I know, it's super hot over in San Francisco.
14:28:55 Welcome, Rachel.
14:28:56 Thank you. So much, Claire. I love that your name is Claire Bouvier.
14:29:01 We were talking about names offline a moment ago and I'm saddened that some people don't pronounce your name, does that do they say booby air?
14:29:10 I mean does that I just have to ask I just have to ask. Okay, well. Yeah, okay, okay.
14:29:11 I get everything. Yes, I get everything. It's okay. You know what?
14:29:17 Okay.
14:29:21 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
14:29:19 I can say I've put your couple names in my day so that is okay I usually clear they don't scrub so And Rachel's a great name.
14:29:28 Right, they got that.
14:29:31 I have a sister, Rachel, so. Yes, love it.
14:29:32 Oh, lovely, lovely. Love my name. Well, I am thrilled to be here. I've been listening to your podcast and I love your enthusiasm and loved learning that you are classical violinist.
14:29:45 And many things about you, you've lived in Taiwan, you, probably speak several languages, just to guess.
14:29:52 Yeah.
14:29:56 Okay.
14:29:52 I love languages that I'm not fluent. I wouldn't say no, but at 1 point I was in in Spanish.
14:30:00 I've lost a lot of it. You gotta really immerse yourself.
14:30:01 Yes, yes, you do. So, we're here to talk about a book for your listeners, first of all.
14:30:08 Awesome that you are a listener, cause Claire VA brings it. She brings a lot of, and love. You're generous.
14:30:11 Yeah. Hi.
14:30:22 Yes.
14:30:16 You're generous. You're your generous podcaster. So I want to be generous and try to Jam pack in our short time every actionable that I can for listeners.
14:30:28 I love it. I love it. I love this.
14:30:26 So I will start with just a question for you and then of course I have lots of ideas. I guess the question is what is something you get asked?
14:30:38 About or something you have experienced as an entrepreneur that just bugs the heck out of you or is the thing.
14:30:47 You hear again and again or experience again and again.
14:30:52 In regards to so today's podcast we're going to be focused on well. The topic of anxiety.
14:30:58 You can call it anything. Whatever the word is, some people, you know, I call it my Tina.
14:31:03 Tina, that's not a bad name for it. Okay.
14:31:03 Tina comes out. Yeah. Tina comes out and Tina is a little so when you, sorry, I, you're asking me a Rephrase it, sorry.
14:31:17 I, yeah.
14:31:16 Let me backtrack. Let me backtrack. I'm gonna change the script because that is not where I'm gonna start.
14:31:24 I love that!
14:31:27 Yeah.
14:31:24 Good luck with the, but, Folks, you're seeing this in real time. I wanna talk a little bit about anxiety.
14:31:31 We humans. As a species and a race, we need to survive, right? So we have in us an inner joy system that loves music and dance and play and an inner threat system and many other systems.
14:31:46 I'm simplifying it. And the threat system is the part of us that does not want to get hurt, does not want to get caught, does not want to be shamed, does not want to dial alone poor with no teeth in our mouth, etc. Etc.
14:32:01 So our threat system has gotten very overactive. Obviously, for a species to stay afloat, we need to run away, when there's danger.
14:32:10 That's why we feel that surge that we feel of fear, even today just coming home, there was this tiny little smart car that I didn't expect to see at a crosswalk.
14:32:19 And my my system zipped, right? You know, Claire just did that little zip. How great, not pleasant, but how great that zip exists to move us, you know, to bring blood to the extremities and move us quickly.
14:32:29 Healthy anxiety, I call it. Healthy Tina.
14:32:31 Right. Healthy anxiety. So we will talk about healthy Tina with a little tea and a heart on the eye.
14:32:37 Yeah. Okay.
14:32:37 And then we'll talk about the terrible Tina. And What I want to talk about is that anxiety is a sign that we are alive.
14:32:45 Let's talk about the positives. It's a sign that we care about something. It's a sign that something matters to us, but it's often giving us incorrect information.
14:33:01 Yes.
14:32:56 So anxiety that says my mailing list is really small. Let's say being an entrepreneur got the small mailing list and I'm not great let's say with technology and that's going to mean that I'm never ever gonna make money.
14:33:11 No, that's not actually correct math. It means let's sit down and grow your mailing list.
14:33:17 And if that's important to you. So what I think we need to do is people and the entrepreneur or the listener knows this, but let's remember it is listen and ask the anxiety.
14:33:27 Which part of you do I want to take in to ground me and energize me? And which part can I say goodbye to?
14:33:32 And like, right, Elizabeth Gilbert, who wrote Eat Pray Love, also wrote a book called Big Magic.
14:33:38 Big matter. Claire, yes.
14:33:37 Big magic. Love that book. That was, that's the book I read. When I was in, Chiang Mai in Thailand, which we were, and I was telling everyone, I bought it for like all my friends.
14:33:52 It's beautiful.
14:33:51 Yep, you are a good friend. Thank you for reminding me that is something I should do. I do that sometimes with books that I love.
14:33:57 That is a great thing. So listeners, it is the best $16 you ever bought. Try to get a hard copy because you're going to want to write in it.
14:34:03 And she talked. Yes. I did, yes. Yep, you're right.
14:34:03 Also, can I throw on something? The audio, she reads it. She reads it and for me that felt close to her.
14:34:09 I did both. There you you know what? I do both when I fall in love with a book.
14:34:13 Yeah.
14:34:15 I'm probably gonna read it first and then I'm gonna listen to it while I'm making dinner, which I totally love.
14:34:18 Yeah. Yeah.
14:34:20 So she talks about putting your fear in your backseat. It's seat belted. It cannot change.
14:34:25 Yeah.
14:34:25 It's there. You're feeling the tingles of, oh my god, my mailing list.
14:34:29 How big is it? That person over there has a 3 million mailing list and I have 600 or 200 and what does that mean but it's not in the driver's seat because in the driver's seat it stops you in your tracks.
14:34:38 Okay, great.
14:34:44 Yeah.
14:34:38 The brakes are so strong. So it's listening to your inner Tina or Gremlin or Worry Wart or whatever we want to call it.
14:34:47 I'm saying how much of this is based in truth and how much of this is my mind getting the better of me.
14:34:50 The fact that a human being wants to be a, that's a very French word, an unclp on you.
14:34:57 Yeah, hey, I'm loving it. Great accent.
14:34:58 That is a very French word, interesting. And is it to make? I don't wanna, I don't wanna get into that.
14:35:05 I'm not sure I don't want to get into the I'm not sure on today.
14:35:04 Okay.
14:35:07 We don't have to break down the word. It means working your tush off. And making something happen.
14:35:11 I will talk about AI in a little bit because offline we talk for a second about that. So what I can say is if you are listening to this podcast, if you are listening to this episode and all episodes, you care.
14:35:24 You have chosen something that matters to you. I loved how you were talking to, I think it's JD the patent attorney.
14:35:30 Wavener. Yeah.
14:35:31 And he's like, you know, if you want to make that water bottle with the 2 flaps on the side and that's what you want to do.
14:35:37 Yeah.
14:35:37 You're gonna get invest. I have 2 right here. I got the pink. I got the green.
14:35:43 This is
14:35:41 I got the ice cubes. You know, got all the things. You're gonna tend Hours and hours and hours working on that there water bottles.
14:35:49 So whatever it is. That matters to you entrepreneur whether it's you know, making violins or doing hair or tutoring kids or being a psychotherapist.
14:36:03 100%.
14:36:02 I considered that in a sense being an entrepreneur. And, and when you start, you get to choose and we see this right now for people in healthcare and and I love it and don't love it.
14:36:14 The love of the part I love is if a psychotherapist finishes grad school and finishes their hours and finishes all the other kerfuffle of things.
14:36:22 It's a lot. They can hang out with one of many, many, many. Huge organizations that will find them clients and they will pay them about a quarter of what is psychotherapist should show the hard word, get paid per session, but they will get them all the clients.
14:36:45 How's that?
14:36:45 No, I mean that's the governing body over, you know, this, this is the reality in most industries though, right?
14:36:52 Right? Right.
14:36:53 And I think Hopefully we're closing that gap and but this is why people don't take this risk.
14:36:58 Because it is like you do have to be hustling for that whole.
14:36:59 So, right, and maybe I can talk, I love counseling and coaching early psychotherapists or people who are wondering if they should become psychotherapist coaches etc and when I say as you know clients come one at a time you cannot see 40 people in a week.
14:37:16 No.
14:37:15 You probably cannot see 30. You may not want to see 25. So you. That's right.
14:37:19 Emotionally speaking, heck now I would never be
14:37:25 So. The way that we become entrepreneurs, there's many different ways. My model is inch by inch step by step, be incremental with it.
14:37:37 Forgive the term don't quit your day job, but have that thing that feeds you if you can.
14:37:44 Yeah.
14:37:44 Every minute that you are not at that thing you will be working on your. Whatever the thing is, your world of entrepreneurship.
14:37:53 Yeah.
14:37:53 Now I have a terrible work ethic when I work for the man. So that means whatever jobs I had as a receptionist and many, many, many restaurants, what that's not a good example because that was many years ago.
14:38:07 But whatever jobs I've had that I did not love or care about, which is terrible to admit.
14:38:12 Any moment that was downtime was me working on making flyers working on my website like doing things that should get a person fired.
14:38:18 Oh, I thought you were gonna go the other way. I was like, 100%. I was a high school teacher and like I would leave.
14:38:32 Yes.
14:38:25 I'd go home and I'd sit in front of YouTube all night all night learning how to whether it was coding or creating some weird design on Photoshop.
14:38:36 Oh no, like. Things got sacrificed a big time.
14:38:36 I Yeah, yeah, listeners do not do it this way. I don't want you getting fired My friend and I had this great conversation where we were talking about someone I knew who worked front desk somewhere and they took an hour, they were told to take an hour for lunch but they didn't get paid that hour.
14:38:52 So I was like, so let me get this straight. You're told to take 12 to one for lunch.
14:38:56 You don't get paid it and you don't really need an hour for lunch. Why don't you just leave early?
14:39:02 Yeah. Or use it hour to work on your business.
14:39:01 Cause that's me. I would take 10 min for lunch and get my And my friend was like, I tried that and I got fired and I was like, I'm so, I'm so sorry you did, but I'm glad.
14:39:12 To know these things. So what I want to say to the listener to come back on track is Do good.
14:39:13 Yeah. Okay.
14:39:18 If you're gonna be naughty like I was naughty, be slick about it.
14:39:21 Do good enough in in the work that you do that you don't care about. Do good enough.
14:39:24 Elizabeth Gilbert.
14:39:26 Do well enough and have that day job make the poop sand with the frog sandwiches that she talks about I think.
14:39:31 Yes.
14:39:32 And you will find you are so impassioned about your work that often your anxiety will start to move into excitement and passion.
14:39:43 So again, incrementally, whatever the thing is that you're moving into, listen to your passion, question your anxiety.
14:39:59 Yeah.
14:39:52 And use whatever writing materials work for you. And I mean writing like actual notebook writing, the actual notebook where you're writing notes and things.
14:40:06 Okay.
14:40:05 I have filled dozens and I've saved them all of notebooks because I think there's something really soothing.
14:40:10 Folks about seeing it and going, this is what matters to me. These are my notes. These are the things, you know, and they're super messy.
14:40:14 Yeah.
14:40:17 I don't need to, but I'm like fascinated by all the all the mess that I'm looking at and they're wonderful.
14:40:21 No, I also like love it. I have Yes.
14:40:24 I love it! I love it. This is my new jam. It's a dot book.
14:40:29 Yes.
14:40:30 You know, dot books are great. So, you Listen to the anxiety that is worthy of being listened to and all other anxieties question.
14:40:39 Don't believe it just because you feel it. The feeling doesn't mean it's actually a fact.
14:40:43 Yes.
14:40:43 Another thing I would say is an actionable for an entrepreneur is have people around you join whatever group exists.
14:40:51 For your industry, whether if I am building the most beautiful. Water. I always want to say water picture water bottles.
14:41:00 I know it's it's pretty it's pretty insane.
14:40:59 Well, that looks like a picture. What you're drinking, Rachel. You're not going on your bicycle with that.
14:41:07 Hmm. My husband got this for me as a joke. Because it's insanely big and I love drinking my water.
14:41:13 Yeah.
14:41:15 So.
14:41:17 Have people around you because as Anne Lamott, the great writer of Bird by Bird, she's a great writer of fiction and non-fiction.
14:41:25 She says this great expression, I'm gonna attribute it to her, which is my mind is like a bad neighborhood.
14:41:33 I try never to go there alone. My mind is like a bad neighborhood. I try never to go there alone.
14:41:34 Hmm.
14:41:37 If you will stay being an entrepreneur listening to your anxiety after a while you don't know which anxiety is worthy of listening to or not, having smart people around you who are maybe in the same boat.
14:41:47 I agree.
14:41:47 If you could support a mentor, always get a mentor, but having people around you to check in with what anxiety is real or not.
14:41:55 The
14:41:52 Yeah. Rachel, you also just this moment. This is so cool you're saying this because how what you're saying Literally yesterday, just I just launched a community, an online community for people that are like what you're talking about on heartbeat.
14:42:13 No, I haven't.
14:42:12 Have you heard of Heartbeat? So there's a podcast long story short, you will love her Heather Lin Angel.
14:42:26 Okay. Okay.
14:42:20 She for a living helps. Entrepreneurs create communities. And I heard her on the Pat Flynn podcast that is called the Smart Passive Income Podcast.
14:42:34 Fantastic for entrepreneurs. She was on it and I wrote her an email and we met and she was like.
14:42:54 Yes.
14:42:40 She's like, you gotta go on heartbeat. So anyways, anyone that's listening, this is like also a plug here, but I've created community and this is what we're talking about is like getting these people together like finding your people finding my people this is So important and I love that you shared that.
14:42:58 I love it.
14:42:59 So I was a thank you and I love that story. I was a psychotherapist in Philadelphia.
14:43:05 I left my town. I'd been licensed for 4 years. So I've got licensed in 2,000.
14:43:12 It's been 23 years. I've been practicing in different ways. But when I moved to California to study, I also do bodies center psychotherapy and dance therapy and expressive arts.
14:43:21 I got, I wear a lot of hats. Yeah. Yeah.
14:43:21 That was good. Edmonds is why I think when I heard you, I was like, we gotta have her on.
14:43:26 We gotta, we got it. We got a hack. We gotta hang. Yeah, this is good.
14:43:27 Yeah.
14:43:31 I moved to San Francisco. It was time to move. I really wanted the expressive art therapy training.
14:43:36 What I neglected to research and I'm glad I neglected to because then I wouldn't have moved.
14:43:39 Is that at the time there was not reciprocity, a human being who was licensed in Pennsylvania, which takes years.
14:43:45 A human being licensed in Pennsylvania to practice psychotherapy could not at the time. Transfer. There was no reciprocity for her to have a California license.
14:43:53 Really?
14:43:56 Even though this human being were to tush off, there was no reciprocity. So I fought.
14:44:01 That internally with anger and rage and snarkiness in every manner of feeling until I finally sat down.
14:44:14 In the same country.
14:44:09 Had to take not only take the exam again. Years later where I couldn't remember anything but I had to take a Actually the same country of course California does feel like a different country there but it's the same country.
14:44:18 Yeah.
14:44:21 So what I did with my anger and my anxiety because many people said you should move back. You will not make it.
14:44:29 This is a ton of work. This is the most expensive city. I had everything going against me and internally I have a very large whiny person.
14:44:36 My anxious person whines. She believes the world doesn't give enough to her. She goes into victim state.
14:44:43 Hmm.
14:44:44 So some other part of me was already teaching the dance there. Learning it and teaching it by dance therapy, I mean workshops and classes not psychotherapy and little by little an inch by inch I found my way to my California license and now 15 or 18 or something years later, almost 20 years later, excuse me, reciprocity finally exists and I am so happy because no one else would have to go through that.
14:45:10 Yes.
14:45:10 So I am licensed in Pennsylvania in California and because of reciprocity. I may get my license in New York and Massachusetts because I teach on the East Coast quite a bit.
14:45:19 So where I'm going with this is to say get creative. The opposite If we have such a thing is anxiety.
14:45:27 You might think it's calm and I would say yes calm and relax that is an opposite of anxiety.
14:45:35 But I would actually say another opposite of anxiety would be curiosity. Use your cure because anxiety just freezes us in our tracks.
14:45:42 We are completely frozen. We are ambushed. There's nothing we can do. We use your curiosity and say, I'm really nervous.
14:45:48 I don't know how I'm going to make it. Everything seems stacked against me and then every human being is talking about AI.
14:45:54 Don't believe what humans are seeing when they go negative. Learn things. But walk away.
14:46:01 I'm old enough to have lived through, to have lived through, Y 2 K. So when we moved into the new millennial.
14:46:05 Yeah, we're all gonna die.
14:46:07 New, we're gonna dive. Everything terrible is going to happen with computers and everything is going to be backwards and inside out and very little.
14:46:17 Of that actually happened. And I think it was. Who wrote Huckleberry Finn?
14:46:24 Okay.
14:46:22 This happens a lot now with words. See it?
14:46:30 Thank you. We're good. We don't need technology. We have, we don't even need to.
14:46:27 Now, now we're like, I like Mark Twain. I was like, but then I got, you know, when you're stuck in gas yourself.
14:46:34 So it was Mark Twain, I believe. I'm gonna ascribe this to who said, in my life many many many terrible things happened to me.
14:46:44 A few of which actually happened. Okay, I said that poorly, but you get it. In my life, many terrible things happen, a few of which actually.
14:46:53 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
14:46:53 Happened. So we are imagining the worst all the time because that inner threat system has to. We're imagining the worst left and right.
14:46:58 Yeah.
14:47:01 And it's not actually happening, but our nervous mind will think it is. Also, I want to be very honest about friendship.
14:47:09 I have amazing friends. And I do not share with most of them. Me backup. Cause my life now is very different.
14:47:22 If I can go back into those times that I anxiety was ripe for me. I cannot remember. So I will just say.
14:47:30 For the most part, be very discerning. Who you share your struggles with. Many humans, rightly so, believe in a very strong 9 to 5 culture and would never become entrepreneurs for awesome reasons.
14:47:47 Yeah.
14:47:46 They are not meant to be that. So be very much expecting humans to say, what's your plan B?
14:47:53 Just awful to hear. What happens if you fail? Another one awful to hear. Choose wisely when you share and you'll also have this great cadre of people who you are with who are also in it together with you and you embolden one another.
14:48:07 You will have a gratitude buddy, another thing that is a beautiful antidote to anxiety is, and I hope it doesn't sound trite, is gratitude.
14:48:15 Going to bed every night, this is another actionable. And writing down 3 things you're grateful for.
14:48:19 I'm grateful I got to do this podcast. I'm grateful the weather is gorgeous.
14:48:22 I'm grateful for the clients I got to see today. They're, you know, really beautiful people I care about and grateful that I have work.
14:48:30 Yeah.
14:48:29 The more you do that, the more good that comes. I don't mean to say it's as simple as just say thank you and be grateful and things will come.
14:48:37 It's hard work too.
14:48:43 Love it.
14:48:35 Yes. The 5 min journal was this been very much where II fall into in the anxious parts. And I think so.
14:48:47 If we can just take a moment and and identify. So you've worked how many years? 25 plus years, working with people around all sorts of things, but really it comes down to, I think, you know, A, how do you define anxiety?
14:49:06 And I love that anxiety like I love now. I think for visually this is so good for our listeners because sometimes we have to actually like I love it broken down like when there's anxiety whenever this feelings when Tina whatever year we're calling it.
14:49:20 I love the part that you can like almost physically like sand pull it apart and say over here is the good anxiety that's getting me out of bed really fast and I'm jumping into my studio and I'm gonna show up and do something comfortable.
14:49:33 Yes.
14:49:35 And then there's the anxiety that cripples us and we can go into the rabbit hole of being like, oh my gosh.
14:49:40 You know, I'm, I'm, I'm drowning. Why does bad thing happen or after?
14:49:45 And, and, and you talked about this because I do see this a lot and I, and I know.
14:49:50 I fall into this sometimes this is the the victimizing you know we think oh we're always a victim and I also think with people with ADHD we also don't allow ourselves to be victim very long because we forget.
14:50:04 We forgot that we were a victim. So it plays both ways, but we also can also hyperbolize everything.
14:50:16 So, you know, we're circling in different worlds. But if we can just identify like I love that anxiety is healthy just like failure, right?
14:50:27 Hmm. I like that. I like that.
14:50:24 Like failure is I always say fail fast. And maybe because again, ADHD brain, you know, failure is good when you feel fast learn and like you said don't sit in that space be curious.
14:50:39 But I just feel like, I don't know, this is becoming such a crippling part of our world.
14:50:47 I read, you know, someone posted a really successful musician being like, I had, she talked about having panic attacks every time she went on tour, but she's adored.
14:50:57 People love her, but like it doesn't matter getting fame, getting rich, getting all these things.
14:51:01 You still and it's like you said in your mind and it's up to us no one else can separate the good anxiety the bad anxiety it's got to be and I've done 8 years of working with a therapist on cognitive behavioral therapy.
14:51:16 Is.
14:51:16 I love it. So this is so something that like I'm constantly trying to understand how our brains, like how some people, you know, hide their anxieties or, you know, or.
14:51:29 You know, cause I've had cameras, they're like, oh, I'm spring because you're like, you are?
14:51:33 And they're like, yeah, this is what's going on behind the scenes. You're like, why didn't you tell me?
14:51:38 And then we could have done this differently. Cause I'm on the other side. Like I'll tell you right now, I've had a done this differently. Cause I'm on the other side.
14:51:47 Like I'll tell you right now, I've had a really super ups and downs, right?
14:51:49 But I talk about it and I'm open about it and then I have people that are in my corner that like give me help and feedback and stuff.
14:51:56 But these what about the people that are suffering silently? How do you define anxiety for them? What is it that they can do without being able to, if they can't afford, you know, having that mentor, having that person.
14:52:10 What do you What can they do on their own?
14:52:16 I love stars.
14:52:12 Well, I'll start. I'll start with a story. I love everything. I love everything you're saying, Claire.
14:52:19 You are. So wonderful in your realness and your authenticity. And your listeners are so blessed to have you because they want to know oh 8 years she does that she believes in it and they you know they kind of look up to you and there's this just so good that you share.
14:52:34 I love that mental health stuff is like out there in the world now. Like we go to therapy. It ain't such a secret.
14:52:37 Okay. Well, it's kind of like to me it's equivalent of like, well, I go to the dentist.
14:52:44 Right.
14:52:47 That's right. Through it, baby. Early whites.
14:52:44 If I'm gonna have some clean my teeth, why isn't someone cleaning my mind? Yeah.
14:52:55 I had a practice. Where did I put my sign? It's not here. I had this big bliss psychotherapy sign.
14:53:02 I had a practice before the pandemic in this beautiful building. I now have a different practice and a much more fun building in the Castro.
14:53:12 Oh, I wanna come.
14:53:10 That's the gay district of SF that is colorful and lovely and whatnot. So It's yeah, please, please, it's Yes, yes, yes.
14:53:15 On the buck list when I do we're having we're gonna have a IRL session.
14:53:20 Yes, that'd be great. And one day there was a letter at my door. Handwritten.
14:53:28 Oh my god, and I open it up and I could tell by the writing maybe a little older the person was a little older and it said you know dear Miss Fleischman I could really use some bliss in my life right now.
14:53:37 I'm an older man and I have had a really hard life and my father hated me and you know I was beaten and I can't afford therapy, but I saw your sign.
14:53:52 Miss Flashman, I saw your sign. And I thought it wouldn't hurt to write to you.
14:53:57 Because I'm really suffering. So I like first the team. My tiers fell, of course.
14:54:04 And then I.
14:54:06 He signed it. And I called the numbers. It's very much a landline person. We're not gonna be texting, right?
14:54:12 No.
14:54:13 I called the number and it rang and rang and rang. And rang. So I was like, okay, okay, that's not going to happen.
14:54:20 So I wrote him back. And I said, dear Mr. Dandelions are great.
14:54:25 Yeah, like, yeah. Yeah, I wasn't that bad is beautiful.
14:54:28 Dear Mr. I am so glad you're reaching out. I'm also so sad to hear what you've been through.
14:54:35 I'm a psychotherapist and it's true. I'm kind of expensive because I've been working for a really long time.
14:54:42 I know some resources and I'm gonna list them here where you can get very low fee psychotherapy.
14:54:47 I also have another idea in addition to that. Why don't you write to me whenever you're feeling some feelings, some pain and suffering.
14:54:58 Let me know how you're doing. Obviously if you're feeling really awful, I want to make sure you have someone you can call me.
14:55:01 And again, I can set you up with loafi therapy, but if it's okay with you.
14:55:05 I'd be more than happy to be your. I don't know why that word came to me We have been pen paling for since definitely before the pandemic so 4 and a half years and we write to each other religiously.
14:55:26 Yeah.
14:55:21 His letters are quite long and I, write every one of mine isn't is a card like a really beautiful card and I asked him if it would be okay to How did I put it?
14:55:34 Like. Yeah, let my husband know of his existence because it's not a typical psychotherapic relationship.
14:55:39 Yeah.
14:55:42 And he said, I would love to, to, you know, sort of offer my best wishes to your husband.
14:55:46 And so now in the letters, she's like, dear Rachel and Ben, I'm thinking of you both.
14:55:51 Go ahead.
14:55:53 And one day out of the blue, I knew from his letters that he volunteers at a food giveaway.
14:55:58 We have many wonderful in addition to the poop and pee that people think of when they think of San Francisco right now, there's a lot of bad crafts.
14:56:04 Oh.
14:56:05 We also have, yeah, there's a lot of wonderful things in our city. So I was with my husband and I got out of the car.
14:56:11 And I asked for Mr. Dandelion and they pointed to him and I said, Mr. Dandelion, it's Rachel Fleischman, you're Penpal.
14:56:18 And we just hugged and hugged and hugged. And I just said, I didn't, you know, I hope it didn't overwhelm you that I'm seeing you out of the blue, but I just wanted to say what your letters mean to me.
14:56:29 And oh thank you thank you and I said I love that I have a pen PAL so we continue to write and He has extreme anxiety.
14:56:45 Yeah.
14:56:39 This is someone who you know, won't take buses and you know this is someone who has been through a lot of trauma severe severe severe trauma maybe hasn't had a regular job in his life has had so much trauma.
14:57:00 Okay. Yeah.
14:56:54 What I want to say is there is help for everyone. I'm not saying, you know, Everyone will get letters every week or month from a therapist, but I will say for the human beings who are suffering.
14:57:21 Yeah. Yeah.
14:57:08 There are resources and so many of them Thank goodness from talk lines where people answer 24, over 7 to a new 98 number so no one ever has to call 9 1 one well someone's having an emergency, but if someone's having a mental health moment, they can call 98 and not deal with the police.
14:57:29 I'm sorry, you're in Canada so it may be 9 99. What? Is it 9 1 one for the police? Where you are?
14:57:32 Yeah, I will, you know, Yes, police is 9 1 one as well.
14:57:35 Is it different? Okay, they're probably just a lot nicer because they're Canadian. That was a funny silly
14:57:40 I don't know. You know what? I have amazing, amazing American friends and a great No, I'm, there's no, no judging over here.
14:57:51 Yes, yes, yes, I just joke about that because We love to say that Canadians. Yeah, oh, I'm sorry.
14:57:53 I know, Canadians also apologize a lot. Sorry, sorry.
14:57:59 I'm sorry, and you're very kind people. I want to share about 3 other little mini vignettes to, I want to share about 3 other little mini vignettes to help with anxiety.
14:58:09 Bill Hater, who is on SNL and has been in many movies and is in the show Barry on HBO and is a brilliant comic and writer and actor had such severe panic attacks on SNL.
14:58:17 That he could not see and he'd be doing you know you will watch him you will never see this folks you will always see the brilliant Bill Hater who looks out of this world funny who's doing every kind of impersonation.
14:58:30 We just don't know what's going on inside the nervous system. And what I want to say about.
14:58:32 Yeah.
14:58:42 Okay.
14:58:37 Anxiety that's not great news, but I will come back to a great news in a moment is the higher the stakes, sometimes the higher the anxiety.
14:58:45 Yeah.
14:58:45 The higher the stakes. So when I was teaching small workshops. It's kind of like theater.
14:58:52 If you're doing community theater, you have a certain level anxiety. I don't know what happens when Broadway happens.
14:58:55 So the bigger the anxiety, the more seat belts we get for it, the more support we get for it, the more things we have to do.
14:59:02 And sometimes that includes medicine. And thank God for it. So the higher the stakes, for me, leading workshops.
14:59:07 Yeah. Yeah.
14:59:11 In front of hundreds of people, all of them very scholarly women at the women's. Center at Omega Institute was much scarier than a fun dancer bliss class with 15 people.
14:59:22 Yeah.
14:59:33 Okay.
14:59:23 On a panel with women who were authors and everybody's, you know, very scholarly and learned and then they point to me and go Rachel so you dance your bliss what's that about it it just sounded so like fluffy and I was humiliated but at the same time let's have some levity about it.
14:59:38 Yeah.
14:59:38 We can have levity about our Terror, anxiety, worry. If we can have some levity.
14:59:48 Yeah.
14:59:46 We do not die from panic attacks. We do not, we do not have heart attacks from them, though it will feel like it.
14:59:53 Yeah.
14:59:53 And we hit it with many things we hit it with guided imagery. And meditation. We hit it when we need to with medicine.
14:59:58 Yep. Yeah.
15:00:01 And when we don't have money, when my father was dying and I had no money and was working for 5 bucks an hour and I needed to see a doc because I was scared to leave my house.
15:00:21 Yeah. No.
15:00:30 Yeah.
15:00:14 I went to the neighborhood mental health center with homeless folks sitting right next to me. I am. No better or worse than they are and found a doc who would see me and because my income, you know, was low and because I knew which zip code, you know, you have to go sort of within your zip code.
15:00:34 I got to experience. Something both. A little bit awful. It's a little demoralizing sometimes to sit with a dock as a psychiatrist is not warm and soft and sweet the way a psychotherapist might be.
15:00:47 It's very medical model, but I'll never forget. How are you doing, Rachel?
15:00:51 She said on one of our appointments and I said, you know, I'm going to this place I've always wanted to go.
15:00:56 I'm going to visit San Francisco. I mean, I wasn't someone who traveled a lot because there wasn't the money and she said, oh my god.
15:01:04 That bridge, Rachel, that bridge. It is so beautiful and I thought, wow, this, this is something I keep hearing when I tell people I'm going to, again, this is, you know, 20.
15:01:15 That came up today too, was on my desktop.
15:01:16 25 years in. Yeah. So We make change in our lives step by step. And anxiety is part of us. It is part of our nervous system.
15:01:31 Yeah.
15:01:30 Sometimes it makes sense and sometimes it does not. IE. Waking up in the middle of the night with a pounding heart. Hate it.
15:01:36 Yeah.
15:01:35 Awful, terrible feeling. Sometimes it's hormonal. We move through different cycles as people we move through.
15:01:54 Okay.
15:01:41 Minopause some people move through what they call Andrew pause if they're male we move through you know I was just reading up on postpartum depression and I was so angry with the body like when a human being needs to feel at her best to feed her child and stay well, she can fall prey to Harry's What's that?
15:01:58 Okay. I love that you said I was angry at the body. That's just. Okay.
15:02:05 Let's not read the body. I was like, what are you talking about, nervous system? The woman needs to feed her child and stay alive and you know.
15:02:12 And because postpartum can go into a brief psychosis, I mean people can feel so off. Anyway, so I mean.
15:02:18 Yeah. Well, I jumping in for the listeners, cause I think it's, I like the balance of sharing and you said that and for the listeners that's the thing is like I work with a lot of moms and a lot of women and that was something that I decided to that was important for me is like having therapy.
15:02:35 But it does, you said medication. I've been on Ciprox for 5, 6 years.
15:02:42 It's a, it's a game changer, you know, and I think it's like.
15:02:50 Yeah.
15:02:47 I think something that is always helped is like fill your toolbox. Someone's toolbox, one person's toolbox will have, you know, these gambit of things versus this.
15:03:07 So cute. It just looks cute.
15:02:57 I also I'm just doing a plug also because this is from a local store but this has been game changer my best friend but this has been game changer my best friend walks by it's deodorant Yang, Yang, Yang, Sweet Orange, but talking about sensory things.
15:03:13 Yeah.
15:03:13 So. She would walk by and I was like every time you walk by in the room I feel a sense of calm.
15:03:19 Your armpits give me calm.
15:03:19 And then I was like, yeah, I was like, what is it? Cause I said, it feels like my urban since breastfeeding literally a dying onions in my arm.
15:03:29 It's hormone. It's hormones. It's for one. So she was like, guess what?
15:03:30 Okay.
15:03:39 This is what we do. This is
15:03:33 She's heading to Copenhagen today out of her way went and dropped this in the mailbox because this is my this is one of my come so yes taking But it could be, yang, yep, how did you handle it?
15:03:44 L, Lang. Yeah, and.
15:03:51 Yeah, yeah.
15:03:44 Like, It's a it's it's a mix of Western and Eastern. It is a mix of great TV that makes us laugh.
15:03:56 Yes.
15:03:56 It's a mix of nature. I have pretty severe seasonal depression so I learn. Yeah, so I
15:04:00 Sorry, meet you. I didn't mean to this.
15:04:04 Let's hear it for seasonal. So I've learned to. My husband calls it chasing the sun.
15:04:12 I love that.
15:04:10 I'm gonna call it stretching the day. Which means, and it's better here than it was in Philly, but still.
15:04:16 I was gonna say.
15:04:17 I don't love short days, so I go out at sunset, which again is earlier than I would like it to be, and I get that in my eyes and I'm giving information to my body that there is still more day left.
15:04:30 And then I make my evenings very special and I cozy up and I honored it is the winter and that nighttime means baking and it's a symbol of cozy.
15:04:38 So we hit it with many things. There is no shame in the game. Nothing wrong with taking medicine when a person needs to.
15:04:45 I do have one issue. And I want to make this gripe, which is psychiatry. It's on a different track, but I think it's an important statement.
15:04:51 Yeah, yeah.
15:04:53 Psychiatry, private psychiatry has become unbelievably expensive. So people avoid seeing a psychiatrist.
15:05:00 Yeah. Yeah.
15:05:00 Understandably. Therefore, many human beings get their antidepressants from their primary doctor. There is nothing wrong with that.
15:05:10 But we need to make psychiatry more affordable because many human beings need a checkup every now and then with a psychiatrist because I've become like a psychiatrist in my practice every one of my clients who takes medicine.
15:05:26 I yell at them when they tell me that they forget to take their medicine. They take it at different times of the day.
15:05:29 They drink too much sometimes. Another thing I'll hear a lot is, oh, I ran out 3 weeks ago.
15:05:34 I just keep forgetting to refill it. These are the most amazing organized, successful, awesome people and they just have a lot going on in the world.
15:05:45 Having that appointment with a psychiatrist where you can and you can do the self education yourself though I don't love Dr.
15:05:52 Google you need to take the meds every day at the same time try to avoid drinking get out in the sunlight and My biggest pet peeve do not go off the meds on your own willingly.
15:06:06 No.
15:06:06 It is so good for you. And we do this, but we do these things because we have as people ambivalence about medicine because we've been shamed, we've been given misinformation that it will dull us.
15:06:15 Yeah. Yeah.
15:06:18 We've been given misinformation that will become addicted to it. I'm not being, don't really wanna get too much into a pro or con of medicine.
15:06:26 . So.
15:06:27 What I know is when we when our nervous system needs a support and a kick start. I'm so grateful that medicine is there for us.
15:06:34 So that was that. Yeah.
15:06:35 Yeah, and again, I love that. You know, it's our toolbox. Everybody has different tools in the toolbox and for me it might be this.
15:06:43 My, my, my, our pit cream. Yeah.
15:06:47 Let me tell you. Every time I every time I come to dance class I wear a little spritz of this beautiful perfume and it's heavenly.
15:06:56 Yeah.
15:06:56 It's not cling or strong. We need sensorial things and that's another piece I would say to listeners around anxiety is you know please don't like pull your hair out or pick at your skin if possible try to have a not just a fidget spinner, I mean take up knitting.
15:07:09 Cause people are, you know, unfortunately, I don't want to say mutilating themselves, but people are getting anxious and doing things that aren't kind to themselves unaware.
15:07:19 It's almost a subconscious. Learn knitting, take up an art form, learn calligraphy, write a card to a friend, garden, pot a plant.
15:07:29 There needs to be more going on with these wonderful hands. Then we're doing. So I could go into many different spikes.
15:07:36 Yeah.
15:07:36 Of sort of ways that we can work with anxiety, but being in a sensorial experience is something you'll learn in a guided imagery for anxiety is to notice 3 sounds.
15:07:47 Sometimes I ask people as they close their eyes just to notice the light to notice sensation to do a body scan.
15:07:52 Yeah.
15:07:53 Another thing everyone can learn that's very either free or affordable is mindfulness based stress reduction or MBSR.
15:08:02 It's a mouthful and that is one of the first scientifically proven hospital based it started meditative systems developed by John Cabot Zinn and his book full catastrophe living is one of my Favorites.
15:08:19 Okay.
15:08:20 It's about this stick. So it's this thick as a brick. And any page can be your Bible, any page you turn, he will explain something about the ways of anxiety where you will just sit and nod.
15:08:32 It's a book that's been around. It's a classic. It's very readable.
15:08:35 He's developed years ago mindfulness based stress reduction. Mindfulness, by the way, for the listener simply means being aware of your thoughts on purpose.
15:08:48 Yeah.
15:08:44 Without judgment. Noticing I'm having an anxious thought noticing the meta of the thought without hating on myself or having it.
15:08:53 And because I'm a body oriented person, the other thing for anxiety is move your body, stretch your body.
15:09:00 Yeah.
15:09:00 Really live. From the neck down, not just lifting weights and like muscling it, which is great too.
15:09:06 Yeah. Yeah.
15:09:09 But learn she gone, learn a few movements that you can come back to because movement is a ritual and anxiety doesn't do well in ritual.
15:09:18 Okay.
15:09:18 There's something very soothing. About having a ritual for ourselves. It's very soothing.
15:09:23 If you think about any yoga class you've ever taken, any martial arts class you've taken or seen.
15:09:27 Okay.
15:09:28 Any movement system in the world, it's all ritual from the time you put on your running shoes and your headphones on and close the door and There's a really sweet ritual for the body.
15:09:40 Yeah.
15:09:45 That's amazing.
15:09:39 Yeah. My, well, my husband's a professional marathoner, so I. He's out.
15:09:49 Yeah, he that is a ritual. And I really think this is what I really love what you've been sharing today Rachel is like I think there's so much work.
15:09:58 So like you said, you know, there's in the toolbox, let's say, we have all these people that we can tap into from psychotherapists or getting a psychiatrist, whether it's a diagnosis or even medication, whatever it is, but I love what you say today.
15:10:12 Is that it really is within ourselves like we get to decide like are we the victim and I know for me and I would love to hear your thoughts on this.
15:10:23 One of the things I remember my therapist was saying, you know, because I had quit my full-time job.
15:10:28 I had a burnout. I was trying to do 104 million things. And I remember that one of his suggestions was like just run, and I already did this commentate your life.
15:10:43 He's like everything you're doing. Tell the story as you're doing. Okay, I'm going to grab this water because this is because I think the mindfulness.
15:10:51 Of recognizing is almost stage 2, like I had to start and I naturally would always commentate, but I had to recognize how I was.
15:11:02 Right.
15:11:00 Living my commentary like, okay, I'm outside for this or. You know, I'm like, I would get to the point I'd hyper focused so much, I wouldn't even go to the bathroom.
15:11:09 You know, it's like, Claire, you. Have to stop what you're doing in trans is like transitions for me are like the most painful thing ever to try and go from one to the next thing.
15:11:18 You're not alone. You're not alone.
15:11:19 Yeah, it's just it's it's almost like and so when I commentate then I have to recognize it's coming, it's coming, it's coming, and then it's not as scary if I just have to try and do something right away.
15:11:30 Huh. I love that. I think that's very, very even very bright therapist. That's really wise.
15:11:39 But why is this?
15:11:37 I mean, yes, he's the amazing. You're amazing, but I wanted to know how because I feel like after I started years and years of really being careful how I would play out my day and talk to myself how it was going through, then I got to start changing the narrative.
15:11:52 Reframing being like.
15:11:53 That's the word. That's the word. You can commentate. And your commentary might be.
15:11:57 Yeah.
15:12:00 Waking up and I could say, oh, look at this awful city. There's pigeon poo on my window.
15:12:04 Exactly.
15:12:06 Another foggy day in this overpriced city. I'm walking to my breakfast. Oh, my husband, you know, there's only 3 raisin brand flakes left.
15:12:14 Okay.
15:12:18 Yeah.
15:12:14 My cat's not into me anymore. And I can commentate away. Or I can say. Okay, I felt off for that for a moment. I'm coming back.
15:12:24 Yeah.
15:12:24 I'm coming back. Oh my god, the sun shining. How funny that is, how beautiful.
15:12:34 No.
15:12:29 So watching the narrative because often we are not reliable narrators. We are seeing things not as they are.
15:12:38 We're seeing things as we are.
15:12:38 Yes. And.
15:12:43 Yeah.
15:12:39 We are seeing everything from our own lens and you can see 2 people who went to Tahiti for a trip and they can come back and I can say to one, how was it and they can say it was awful and it was raining every day and I can't believe it, my hair got frizzy and I could never leave the hotel and the other would say this was amazing.
15:12:59 Okay. Okay.
15:12:58 I caught up on reading the rain was so pure and beautiful and it cooled everything down and I loved it.
15:13:04 Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
15:13:05 And I'm, and I say to people be who you are, the second one might sound a little bit like too joyous.
15:13:10 Yeah.
15:13:15 Yeah.
15:13:11 That's fine. But notice your commentary, notice how you feel with it. I think it's great.
15:13:20 You know, you married someone who works with speed and endurance and I would imagine a lot of math.
15:13:27 I don't know if they want to keep making it faster with marathons. It's not a world I know, but I would imagine you're always.
15:13:29 It's, it's by the second. It's very, it's a calculated.
15:13:31 Right, right. It's Fascinating. Right, it's fascinating to me. Right, right.
15:13:37 Discipline at its highest form.
15:13:41 And we, I see a lot of that in San Francisco. We have a lot of runners, and, I'm not one of them, but I think that's great.
15:13:47 Me neither.
15:13:48 And I think you love doing, you love being alive, you have an a massive life force, you have a massive appetite for life, you're so excited by the work that you do.
15:13:59 I'm sure you got burned out because you worked your butt off. At what you used to do.
15:14:03 I was a high school teacher.
15:14:08 I loved it. I loved it, but.
15:14:04 Yeah, sure. So you were the best teacher. Because you loved it so you couldn't do it anymore because you were exhausted.
15:14:11 Yeah.
15:14:12 So I. I think sometimes what is it like to have what I call active rest? Where you just play with that jigsaw puzzle and do nothing else but that jigsaw puzzle or jigsaw puzzle and listening.
15:14:35 Yeah.
15:14:27 We have to be a little careful with anxiety because we are living in a time of optimized optimized optimized where we're listening to books on blinkest in 15 min on double speed and we can listen to 5 a day and I'm guilty of this myself because I love learning.
15:14:41 Yes, yes.
15:14:42 I love reading and I love learning. But sometimes we need, we need to fast from our gadgets.
15:14:48 You know there's a lot of statistics that show the more we are pressing and touching and being with our phones the less joyful and in the moment we are.
15:14:56 So I just ask your listeners, whatever your relationship is, not here to judge it, but notice if it's offering you joy because going on airplane mode when we can't you're a mom you have responsibilities but when we can go on airplane mode and shut everything down that is a very good reset for our nervous system.
15:15:12 Well, it's so cool that you said that because I think all these things are coming together. Something I learned and I believe San Francisco's at altitude is it a little bit.
15:15:22 Is that why I'm so curious? Doesn't matter. The point is, is that, my husband did say something, he said, the greatest recovery, like what, how you become a better runner isn't always the running.
15:15:41 Oh, right. Sure.
15:15:39 It was actually the recovery. So people go run in altitude. And he said that and and he said the altitude it's not when you're running you're not getting the benefits when you're running, you're not getting the benefits when you're running in altitude, it's actually when you're sleeping.
15:15:51 Right.
15:15:56 Right.
15:15:51 And so you become the better runner because of the recovery period. And I think sometimes I kind of take that as a anecdote or like something that I try and apply to my life because I do.
15:16:05 I want to go a hundred percent all day long if I could. I said when I was a little kid I wanted to be a vampire because I heard vampires don't need to sleep and I was like I know I wanted my whole life to the feeling that never I had to sleep.
15:16:17 My parents like, well, you're not a vampire. And so it is like when you talk about active rest for a lot of us for entrepreneurs, it's very hard to.
15:16:31 Yeah, it really is. Yeah.
15:16:28 To insert that into your day. It's really hard. It's really hard for someone most people like if you're an entrepreneur you are driven in a certain capacity.
15:16:40 And you sometimes don't realize the rest could be the most healing part of your day.
15:16:45 I mean, luckily we have aging on our side because you will need to rest as you age.
15:16:50 Okay.
15:16:51 Your body will let you know. Fine is great, but it what caffeine does is it's just quiet.
15:16:54 Yes.
15:16:56 It's quiet the adina scene if I'm pronouncing correctly the hormone that makes us tired which we have it just quiets that temporarily.
15:17:04 Just makes you dittering.
15:17:04 It all comes back. It's a really wild one because it has about a 6 hourhour half-life.
15:17:10 So I say to people, if caffeine is your jam and your body metabolizes it well, if caffeine is your jam and your body metabolizes it well, great.
15:17:16 Please make sure you end at one PM. Because if it's a 6 h half life and you're having a really good cup of somewhere in Canada and somewhere in San Francisco.
15:17:24 Somewhere in Canada that didn't sound right. Somewhere in your lovely town.
15:17:32 Thanks.
15:17:27 Oh, Kingston, Ontario, I'm so Hey, it's okay. It's okay.
15:17:36 Yeah, still learning. Still, we're just getting to know each other.
15:17:37 Yeah, I'm just, I'll just be the Canadian today. That's okay.
15:17:42 Yeah, but if we're in Kingston or we're in SF and we want a good cup of coffee.
15:17:51 Yeah.
15:17:48 That cup of coffee is going to have upwards of a hundred 10 mix of caffeine because it's made so beautifully and that's that's strong.
15:17:55 So if there's a six-hour half-life, that means in 6 h that 110 is now down to.
15:18:00 55 megs of caffeine, which is still decent. 6 h from them, which might be when you're closing up day.
15:18:07 It's still going to have half a 55 so it's still gonna have somewhere close to 30 makes so folks Notice what your nervous system needs.
15:18:15 Yeah.
15:18:17 And act active risk can be really fun because I do think knitting or making something for that entrepreneur for us for the person who is doing a lot can still feel nourishing in that way.
15:18:28 Also micron apps. I'm saying that on another podcast. 17 or 18 min is all you need.
15:18:33 That's all you need. But do it.
15:18:33 I love, okay, I'm glad because yes. I am, well, my dad, I'm one of 8 kids and my dad, he was the king of those micronaps.
15:18:47 Did you say I'm one of 8 kids? Oh my god. Oh my god, that's amazing.
15:18:54 Wow.
15:18:45 10 min and you're like, did he have a full night's sleep? Yes. Well, like that's where the resourcefulness you learn how to do things on your own.
15:18:58 Yep. And where are you in the birth order?
15:19:02 Okay, sure. That makes sense. Makes sense. Are any multiples, any twins in there?
15:19:01 I'm the second oldest. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
15:19:11 Well.
15:19:09 No, we are all single. Yeah, no, it's, I love it. I have it has taught me more.
15:19:19 That's right.
15:19:17 It keeps, it's the gift that keeps on giving. Because my sisters are my 4 best friends built in.
15:19:25 So cool.
15:19:25 They're stuck with me forever. And 3 brothers I love to death too but it's nice having your sisters yeah
15:19:30 I'm so touched. My husband's one of 6. And he is a middle triplet.
15:19:38 Why?
15:19:37 So his parents or he existed his parents had 3 little boys and they wanted a girl and mom got pregnant and had 3 more voice.
15:19:48 I could.
15:19:49 I just got to see a photo of the ultrasound the other day from back in the day and it was really magical.
15:19:53 So. That's use my one in a million. We should probably, we should probably close up.
15:20:00 Yeah, like what, what is? You have one more question.
15:20:06 Good.
15:19:53 Wow. Wow. Wow. We're gonna, well, I could, this is, I know, we got, we're like, so for all the listeners, I'm sorry, but this is one of those podcasts episodes where I just got lost into the conversation and felt super moved and I think we've gotten more than a taste of Rachel's incredible, not only experience wisdom, your stories of what
15:20:24 you've gone through, I think the best thing is like, okay, people are gonna want after listening to you, they're gonna want more.
15:20:32 Where can we take the rest where can we continue this conversation for them? Do you have something where we can direct them to?
15:20:40 Sure, sure, sure. I can share with you my information, which has some resources. I'm also really touched if someone emails me for, I've made, you know, audio.
15:20:53 So I am at 2 websites. One is simply called Bliss Counseling. Com. But we spell counseling with one L, my dear ones, not with 2.
15:21:03 But anyway, is that cute?
15:21:02 Okay. I love it. I know that's a good, that's bliss counseling.
15:21:08 Dot com.
15:21:07 So with this counseling.com and then the other website and they both have different resources the other website is dancing your bliss.
15:21:15 Com and I wanna also say that I have found very useful for anxiety the deep work of Tara Brock, TARA CH dot, I think, org.
15:21:35 And she is a Buddhist psychologist and the author of I think 4 best sellers. One is called Radical Acceptance.
15:21:37 Yes, I was gonna say yes.
15:21:37 Okay, very powerful and it came out an oh 4 so almost 20 years ago. And yeah, yeah.
15:21:43 Was that 20 years ago? Okay.
15:21:46 And I think her work will speak to any human being who has felt worry, who has felt anxiety, and she uses a process called rain.
15:21:57 Having to do with work. Anyway, she has a lot of great resources on her website more than you would expect and all of them top quality.
15:22:07 So. Yeah.
15:22:06 Amazing. This is great because we will share after in the notes for this episode and we will obviously turn this into a YouTube.
15:22:16 YouTube it sounds I feel I'm invading myself here but we'll have all these amazing resources that you've provided because II definitely know this is no matter who you are we experience forms of this.
15:22:28 In one capacity or another and I hope that the end of this podcast with Rachel, Fleischman, did I say that right?
15:22:34 Nice man, yeah.
15:22:36 Freshman she has given us an amazing toolbox for each one of us to take with us as we Go into this new exciting chapter.
15:22:45 So thank you so much for being on the Small Town Entrepreneur Podcast. We are just absolutely delayed that you gave us this time.
